Our Biggest Turncoat?

[Webby]

Re: Our Biggest Turncoat?

I made a list of the captains who had walked out or left the club. I think it was getting on for 8 or 9 players. David Thorpe, Laurie Sandllands, the guys you mention, Doug Hawkins, KT and a couple of others. That's 7 I can think of.

Yep, Sandilands walked after cracking shits with administration (lifelong Dogs fan and still Dogs man today). Thorpe was lured to Richmond after Bones McGhie paved the way (although we sacked Bones and he played in a flag in '73). I think Thorpe might've seen a clear premiership path come 1974. KT left, but on our terms - which proved to be very advantageous. However Douggie was sacked and was then approached by Bernie Quinlan at Fitzroy. His reasoning was that he was embarking on a fledgling media career and just needed to hang on for another year. As it was, channel 9 billed him as a disposable clown and it didn't last long, anyway.

As it was, Sandilands was a Footscray mad kid, Dempsey also (Footscray Primary School), and Doug was a Braybrook boy-cum-uber-icon. Not sure about Thorpey. So, yes, point stands. We lost some very senior Doggies men over the years.

Although I must say, the KT, Dempsey, Griffen and Hawkins moves were in the best interests of the club, (Dempsey debatable) ,whilst Sandilands didn't have much left in him.

But, yes, point stands. You just don't see club captains move from other clubs the way you see them move from us. Somehow others seem to dissuade even the washed up, disgruntled ones from leaving. I guess it's nice to have resources...! However, to temper things a bit, the last one I remember was Leigh Colbert in 2000. He moved from Geelong to North for a young key forward by the name of Cam Mooney.... At that point it had been North 4 vs Geelong 0 for flags over the past 25 years. Since that move, the Cats are up 3-0..

So long as the deal is right, losing your captain can be a blessing.. Albeit not a good look!

[Twodogs]

Re: Our Biggest Turncoat?

Plus there was Ian Dunstan who had pretty much been the captain for the two years before he left to go to North with Templeton missing so many games with his injury and recovery and subsequent recovery from the recovery. Mocha must have been captain for 75% of the games in that 2 year time.

[1eyedog]

Re: Our Biggest Turncoat?

Yep, Sandilands walked after cracking shits with administration (lifelong Dogs fan and still Dogs man today). Thorpe was lured to Richmond after Bones McGhie paved the way (although we sacked Bones and he played in a flag in '73). I think Thorpe might've seen a clear premiership path come 1974. KT left, but on our terms - which proved to be very advantageous. However Douggie was sacked and was then approached by Bernie Quinlan at Fitzroy. His reasoning was that he was embarking on a fledgling media career and just needed to hang on for another year. As it was, channel 9 billed him as a disposable clown and it didn't last long, anyway.

As it was, Sandilands was a Footscray mad kid, Dempsey also (Footscray Primary School), and Doug was a Braybrook boy-cum-uber-icon. Not sure about Thorpey. So, yes, point stands. We lost some very senior Doggies men over the years.

Although I must say, the KT, Dempsey, Griffen and Hawkins moves were in the best interests of the club, (Dempsey debatable) ,whilst Sandilands didn't have much left in him.

But, yes, point stands. You just don't see club captains move from other clubs the way you see them move from us. Somehow others seem to dissuade even the washed up, disgruntled ones from leaving. I guess it's nice to have resources...! However, to temper things a bit, the last one I remember was Leigh Colbert in 2000. He moved from Geelong to North for a young key forward by the name of Cam Mooney.... At that point it had been North 4 vs Geelong 0 for flags over the past 25 years. Since that move, the Cats are up 3-0..

So long as the deal is right, losing your captain can be a blessing.. Albeit not a good look!

Cousins and Judd both left West Coast (not sure if they were actually captains at the time of their departure), of course the Judd move while painful at the time was certainly in the best interest of the club.

[Webby]

Re: Our Biggest Turncoat?

My memory is that Jimmy didn't have much choice, reportedly following some sort of team incident while travelling. When you compare it with some of the stuff that Collingwood has been prepared to stomach over the years I think it was pretty minor stuff.

I could be wrong however, old memories being what they are.

Yeah, a tiny bit harsh on Jock. Although absolutely FILTHY with him at the time... And I mean FILTHY! For some context, news of his defection leaked during the 1985 finals series and I believe resulted in a very insipid first up performance against Hawthorn!

However, with the passing of time, I can kind of understand it. You see, that particular period saw the introduction of a salary cap. We had stars such as Beasley, Hawkins, Royal and Hardie who were hardly demanding pay cuts! Meanwhile Sydney had been bought by one Geoffrey Eddelsten (? Spelling.. Actually, who cares!? I'll go with Joffrey..). I believe Jock was offered a lot more to go to Sydney and asked for a lot less to stay. The club said no and he went. Funnily enough, the Swans flicked him to the Bears when the cap really kicked in - which was solid evidence that they had probably overpaid and that our management were probably on the money - whilst he only played 25 odd games post leaving.

As a cold business decision, it was probably kosher. However for what it cost us from a fabric viewpoint, it was tragic. The club probably could've met him somewhere in the middle (even $5-10k might've done it) and retained him. Because Jock really was a leader of men... A category I do not place Griffen in!

[Webby]

Re: Our Biggest Turncoat?

Cousins and Judd both left West Coast (not sure if they were actually captains at the time of their departure), of course the Judd move while painful at the time was certainly in the best interest of the club.

Not a bad point to frame it. Probably the richest club in the league. They got a good deal for Judd and Cousins was effectively a reject when he left.

So, to be fair: Edmond did nothing post FFC. KT did very little. Sandilands did nothing. Dunstan did nothing (if we count him - as he did toss the coin 20+ times), Hawkins did next to nothing. They're in the "Cousins Departure Lounge" not the Judd Lounge!

Also, was Bruce Duperouzel not club captain of Sht Kilda when we poached him in '83? Perhaps not? However, it's not a complex formula - poaching senior players from the less affluent clubs! Guess what category we fit in!?!

This is the reason that, although never a premiership player, Chris Grant should hold his head up just as high (if not higher) than any premiership player in the country.

[The Doctor]

Re: Our Biggest Turncoat?

I can only remember, Dempsey, Edmond and Griffen. Any others?

Sandilands?

[Twodogs]

Re: Our Biggest Turncoat?

Yeah, a tiny bit harsh on Jock. Although absolutely FILTHY with him at the time... And I mean FILTHY! For some context, news of his defection leaked during the 1985 finals series and I believe resulted in a very insipid first up performance against Hawthorn!

However, with the passing of time, I can kind of understand it. You see, that particular period saw the introduction of a salary cap. We had stars such as Beasley, Hawkins, Royal and Hardie who were hardly demanding pay cuts! Meanwhile Sydney had been bought by one Geoffrey Eddelsten (? Spelling.. Actually, who cares!? I'll go with Joffrey..). I believe Jock was offered a lot more to go to Sydney and asked for a lot less to stay. The club said no and he went. Funnily enough, the Swans flicked him to the Bears when the cap really kicked in - which was solid evidence that they had probably overpaid and that our management were probably on the money - whilst he only played 25 odd games post leaving.

As a cold business decision, it was probably kosher. However for what it cost us from a fabric viewpoint, it was tragic. The club probably could've met him somewhere in the middle (even $5-10k might've done it) and retained him. Because Jock really was a leader of men... A category I do not place Griffen in!

Jock was a true captain always telling younger player where to stand or run and pulling older players into line when needed. He was even articulate enough to deliver a blistering rev up at the end of a quarter break. He could turn a game with a big Mark and goal or picking it up on the bounce and snapping a goal from any where on the forward line.

He was hardly ever beauen for a contested Mark and kicked big bags on good defenders. He tore Mark Austin's old man apart one day in 1983 with 6 goals and Curley Austin was a multiple premiership player., we'd won the wooden spoon the year before and Carlton had won their third flag in four years. But Jock led us to a memorable win early in the year.

[Testekill]

Re: Our Biggest Turncoat?

True but he just shouldn't be mentioned in a thread like this. A thread for the Grifters of the world.

Templeton knew his knee was no good. The Dees were offering a massive transfer fee for him. Apparently, KT announced to the players and officials in the dressing room in tears that he was crippled and so he was doing the best he could for the club by taking the deal. He had knocked back plenty before that fateful night match at VFL park. When he went to Melbourne, it was immediately obvious to all that he was playing on one leg and his career then petered out over a couple of seasons.

Yeah, I can't muster up any negative emotions about Templeton leaving. If he knew his body was breaking down then he did the right thing by getting us some needed money while setting himself up for a nice final payday.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Our Biggest Turncoat?

Does Malthouse deserve a mention for deserting the club in 89? I'd have him way before others in the list but thought maybe should get his name in there somewhere.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Our Biggest Turncoat?

Jock was a true captain always telling younger player where to stand or run and pulling older players into line when needed. He was even articulate enough to deliver a blistering rev up at the end of a quarter break. He could turn a game with a big Mark and goal or picking it up on the bounce and snapping a goal from any where on the forward line.

He was hardly ever beauen for a contested Mark and kicked big bags on good defenders. He tore Mark Austin's old man apart one day in 1983 with 6 goals and Curley Austin was a multiple premiership player., we'd won the wooden spoon the year before and Carlton had won their third flag in four years. But Jock led us to a memorable win early in the year.

Two dogs I don't think Mark and curly are related.

[Maddog37]

Re: Our Biggest Turncoat?

No mention of Brian Lake?

[Twodogs]

Re: Our Biggest Turncoat?

Two dogs I don't think Mark and curly are related.

You're right mate. Young curly is from South Australia.

[chef]

Re: Our Biggest Turncoat?

No mention of Brian Lake?

Not for me.

He gave his best footy for us and left for less money to chase a premiership(which he deserved) when the was zero chance of him getting it here before retirement.

He left without a sour taste and he still sees himself as a Bulldog person.

[SonofScray]

Re: Our Biggest Turncoat?

Not for me.

He gave his best footy for us and left for less money to chase a premiership(which he deserved) when the was zero chance of him getting it here before retirement.

He left without a sour taste and he still sees himself as a Bulldog person.

Thats how I see it. Good move for both parties, no hard feelings. Lake is a Life Member of the Club and gave his best, which was elite for the FB position.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Our Biggest Turncoat?

Not for me.

He gave his best footy for us and left for less money to chase a premiership(which he deserved) when the was zero chance of him getting it here before retirement.

He left without a sour taste and he still sees himself as a Bulldog person.

Agree 95%. The 5% uncertainty was the Norm Smith. That really bloody hurt.