Post-flag plummet was always possible

[Topdog]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

Bob's got it wrong and it paints a picture that many people in today's society can't handle success and they come across as emotionally fragile. I get that Bob is more socially aware of the pressure and vulnerabilities young people face today than I am but in very simple terms I find his view on this a load of poppycock.

If players and officials have checked out emotionally and are asking themselves "whats next" as Bob is indicating then they need to find that spark elsewhere. Bob's views fly in the face of players leaving struggling clubs for success elsewhere. I think the vast majority are made of sterner stuff than Bob is indicating but if he is right then we need to weed out those who have climbed their Everest.

Genuinely from what you have witnessed over the last 18 months and some comments you have made about Dahl and a few others I'm shocked that you believe he is wrong. I wish he were but I sat there nodding in sad agreement when I was reading it.

[The Pie Man]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

I am hearing that exact thing. Stringer isn't the end of the player exits...and the more I hear the more I think some of the other trades 'rumoured' by the likes of Barrett are 100% on the money and MAYBE that's why we (the club) have been so 'angry' about it all (media commentary)...because the comments are pretty much based in fact and it means the 'inner sanctum' is leaking like a sieve.

I believe the Dahl rumours - though Barrett kinda revealed his source for that story in an earlier edition of the AFL site sliding doors thing he does where he mentioned something about 3 list managers from other clubs confirmed he was discussed in the trade period. So TBF, not sure we can assume the inner sanctum is leaking.

They might be about other stuff, but perhaps not that.

Not surprised we're potentially looking at a clean out - I don't even mind now this year's fully down the toilet

[Bornadog]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

Not surprised we're potentially looking at a clean out - I don't even mind now this year's fully down the toilet

How many can one club get rid of? We are lacking experienced players and there are players like Honeychurch, Webb, that are not up to it?

[mjp]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

How many can one club get rid of? We are lacking experienced players and there are players like Honeychurch, Webb, that are not up to it?

I think this is the very point that has us all so concerned. The deficiencies in some players are clear and they are not and will not be impact players at the top level. Others who have shown they CAN be are talked about it as behavioural ‘issues’ and on the trade block...plus we have approximately 30 tall defenders and 0 mids on a list of 45....

So what happens next?

[GVGjr]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

Genuinely from what you have witnessed over the last 18 months and some comments you have made about Dahl and a few others I'm shocked that you believe he is wrong. I wish he were but I sat there nodding in sad agreement when I was reading it.

I've certainly challenged our performances and approach since the flag but in the main I had attributed much of that to a few players who have been distracted and a footy department that never addressed the challenges except for Stringer. Murphy however, paints a very different picture and one that basically says our players and the footy department are fragile souls that can't handle success and certainly weren't ready for it.

This is where I hope he is wrong because I'd hate to think we have a core of players that need constant reassurance that they are doing a good job but who also shirk expectations being placed on them. I'd hate to think we have players who can't cop criticism but need people to accept that some days they will work hard and on others they won't. I could go on.

We won in 2016 because we worked harder than other clubs which gave us a competitive advantage. We haven't really got that edge back which is why I'm challenging Bobs view. Most of our issues can be resolved by everyone working a bit harder not by lowering the bar on expectations on them.

[Bornadog]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

I've certainly challenged our performances and approach since the flag but in the main I had attributed much of that to a few players who have been distracted and a footy department that never addressed the challenges except for Stringer. Murphy however, paints a very different picture and one that basically says our players and the footy department are fragile souls that can't handle success and certainly weren't ready for it.

This is where I hope he is wrong because I'd hate to think we have a core of players that need constant reassurance that they are doing a good job but who also shirk expectations being placed on them. I'd hate to think we have players who can't cop criticism but need people to accept that some days they will work hard and on others they won't. I could go on.

We won in 2016 because we worked harder than other clubs which gave us a competitive advantage. We haven't really got that edge back which is why I'm challenging Bobs view. Most of our issues can be resolved by everyone working a bit harder not by lowering the bar on expectations on them.

Totally agree with what you have said.

When Bevo started at the club, a friend was at a BBQ at his place around the start of 2015. Bevo thought looking at the list it will take at least 3 years before we are challenging for the premiership. Perhaps 2016 came sooner than we thought.

Bob always describes life very differently that what most of us do, and the way he described our unexpected win can be interpreted in many ways.

I agree we need to work harder, as I for one am not satisfied with just one recent premiership, I want to see a dynasty.

The players surely must think the same way, as after all why are they playing AFL.

[GVGjr]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

Totally agree with what you have said.

When Bevo started at the club, a friend was at a BBQ at his place around the start of 2015. Bevo thought looking at the list it will take at least 3 years before we are challenging for the premiership. Perhaps 2016 came sooner than we thought.

Bob always describes life very differently that what most of us do, and the way he described our unexpected win can be interrupted in many ways.

I agree we need to work harder, as I for one am not satisfied with just one recent premiership, I want to see a dynasty.

The players surely must think the same way, as after all why are they playing AFL.

Bevo was very dirty that our game plan was leaked to Adelaide in 2015 because had we won that game we were right in contention that year as well as 2016 so I think he got it a bit wrong. We should have been contenders last year and this year as well. That would have been 4 years as genuine contenders which was how good our list was.

If it came earlier than expected then how far are we off the mark now?

First Grant and now Murphy have essentially indicated we have fluked it in 2016 and I challenge that. Both of them also indicate a hangover in 2017 which was denied by the club through the season and both indicate there will be a bit of a clean out at the end of the season which begs the question why we made minimal changes at the end of 2017? Murphy has also gone a step further indicating that we weren't ready for success in 2016 and it appears we have a soft playing list and perhaps footy department.

I've said this previously, but I'd prefer us to just say we aren't playing well and we will reset the playing list at the end of the year.
There is nothing wrong in delivering an honest appraisal of where we are currently at. It won't change the vast majority of us for fully supporting the club. Murphy's spin on a fragile club to me is an embarrassing explanation.

[Happy Days]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

So in short we were striving to get near the top but never to the top, and having misjudged it in 2016 and accidently won, we want to make sure we don't find ourselves in that situation again unless we can't avoid it.

You couldn't sum up 63 of our past 64 years more perfectly.

You're misreading it - we are trying to be pathetic and 2016 was actually the mistake. Bravo to the club to capitalising on our strong brand and getting us back to where we should be.

Because if it's no one's fault it logically can't be bad.

[Happy Days]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

Our strawman-style condescending take on public relations this year is easily more annoying than the actual on-field performance. I don't need to be told that Crozier was better than Bont on the weekend. I don't need to be told that we "accidentally" won a flag in spite of our tragic history. I don't need to be told that the media are out to get us. Because none of it is true and none of it makes me feel any form of engagement towards the club. For a club that prides itself on its true believers and the loyalty of its supporter base they don't seem to mind totally taking the piss out of them.

How about someone tell me why we suck and why most of the playing group has gone backwards and why it doesn't seem to be anyone's fault that any of this has happened?

[Sedat]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

Bevo was very dirty that our game plan was leaked to Adelaide in 2015 because had we won that game we were right in contention that year as well as 2016 so I think he got it a bit wrong. We should have been contenders last year and this year as well. That would have been 4 years as genuine contenders which was how good our list was.

If it came earlier than expected then how far are we off the mark now?

First Grant and now Murphy have essentially indicated we have fluked it in 2016 and I challenge that. Both of them also indicate a hangover in 2017 which was denied by the club through the season and both indicate there will be a bit of a clean out at the end of the season which begs the question why we made minimal changes at the end of 2017? Murphy has also gone a step further indicating that we weren't ready for success in 2016 and it appears we have a soft playing list and perhaps footy department.

I've said this previously, but I'd prefer us to just say we aren't playing well and we will reset the playing list at the end of the year.
There is nothing wrong in delivering an honest appraisal of where we are currently at. It won't change the vast majority of us for fully supporting the club. Murphy's spin on a fragile club to me is an embarrassing explanation.

I'm actually heartily sick and tired of our own club legends pissing on our premiership. It's bad enough when ignorant deadshits on BF do it, let alone 300 game champions and revered figures of our club.

We appear to be so insecure and pathetic that we would rather diminish and talk down one of the greatest achiecements by any team in 120 years of VFL/AFL finals history than to admit we made mistakes in the aftermath. That premiership was AMAZING - it is the blueprint that has underpinned Richmond's flag success and game plan, and also inspired another dozen copycats. And our own people are essentially calling it a fluke that wasn't supposed to happen.

Our club messaging is complete and utter shit. Fix it up FFS.

[The bulldog tragician]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

Our strawman-style condescending take on public relations this year is easily more annoying than the actual on-field performance. I don't need to be told that Crozier was better than Bont on the weekend. I don't need to be told that we "accidentally" won a flag in spite of our tragic history. I don't need to be told that the media are out to get us. Because none of it is true and none of it makes me feel any form of engagement towards the club. For a club that prides itself on its true believers and the loyalty of its supporter base they don't seem to mind totally taking the piss out of them.

How about someone tell me why we suck and why most of the playing group has gone backwards and why it doesn't seem to be anyone's fault that any of this has happened?

I have mentioned elsewhere that the club posted a not so funny gif of us as being left behind on the starting blocks in the first qtr of Thurs night. I don’t mind humour but this was totally out of whack with how we were feeling seeing a disorganised and lethargic team that looked like we’d suffer a 100 point defeat in front of a prime time audience. A social media fail.

[The bulldog tragician]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

I'm actually heartily sick and tired of our own club legends pissing on our premiership. It's bad enough when ignorant deadshits on BF do it, let alone 300 game champions and revered figures of our club.

We appear to be so insecure and pathetic that we would rather diminish and talk down one of the greatest achiecements by any team in 120 years of VFL/AFL finals history than to admit we made mistakes in the aftermath. That premiership was AMAZING - it is the blueprint that has underpinned Richmond's flag success and game plan, and also inspired another dozen copycats. And our own people are essentially calling it a fluke that wasn't supposed to happen.

Our club messaging is complete and utter shit. Fix it up FFS.

Completely agree.its like Danny from Droop St has taken over Comms, talking our achievement down with glee.

[GVGjr]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

I'm actually heartily sick and tired of our own club legends pissing on our premiership. It's bad enough when ignorant deadshits on BF do it, let alone 300 game champions and revered figures of our club.

We appear to be so insecure and pathetic that we would rather diminish and talk down one of the greatest achiecements by any team in 120 years of VFL/AFL finals history than to admit we made mistakes in the aftermath. That premiership was AMAZING - it is the blueprint that has underpinned Richmond's flag success and game plan, and also inspired another dozen copycats. And our own people are essentially calling it a fluke that wasn't supposed to happen.

Our club messaging is complete and utter shit. Fix it up FFS.

If we were well entrenched in the top 8 now neither Grant or Murphy would be offering up that our success in 2016 was a fluke or that it happened earlier than expected in fact they would probably take to task anyone in the media suggesting it.
It's being offered up now to explain why we have fallen off a cliff in the last 2 seasons and it doesn't need to happen. We were simply on top of our game in 2015 and 2016 and have been off our game since. All we need to do is explain what we will be doing to return us back into contenders in 2019 and 2020.

There is no need to diminish our result in 2016 because it wasn't a fluke, it didn't come earlier than expected because it was a combination of the hardest working team in the competition and a coach that that got the jump on the opposition that won it for us.

For years we have taken John Elliot to task for referring to us as a tragic club but now, in my opinion, we have our own club legends effectively diminishing our achievements. Much like the views of Elliot I don't agree with it.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

I'm actually heartily sick and tired of our own club legends pissing on our premiership. It's bad enough when ignorant deadshits on BF do it, let alone 300 game champions and revered figures of our club.

We appear to be so insecure and pathetic that we would rather diminish and talk down one of the greatest achiecements by any team in 120 years of VFL/AFL finals history than to admit we made mistakes in the aftermath. That premiership was AMAZING - it is the blueprint that has underpinned Richmond's flag success and game plan, and also inspired another dozen copycats. And our own people are essentially calling it a fluke that wasn't supposed to happen.

Our club messaging is complete and utter shit. Fix it up FFS.

If the 'strategic' communications department at the club isn't overhauled ASAP, then our free agent/trading period will be a flaming disaster for fans, members and the club generally if there's going to be a list overhaul. They've burned down the premiership and the 22 that played that day, and the 2016 list generally. What's next?

[jeemak]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

I'm actually heartily sick and tired of our own club legends pissing on our premiership. It's bad enough when ignorant deadshits on BF do it, let alone 300 game champions and revered figures of our club.

We appear to be so insecure and pathetic that we would rather diminish and talk down one of the greatest achiecements by any team in 120 years of VFL/AFL finals history than to admit we made mistakes in the aftermath. That premiership was AMAZING - it is the blueprint that has underpinned Richmond's flag success and game plan, and also inspired another dozen copycats. And our own people are essentially calling it a fluke that wasn't supposed to happen.

Our club messaging is complete and utter shit. Fix it up FFS.

It kind of reminds me of Cameron Ling joining in on the shitcanning of himself for having red hair. Basic fodder that could easily be retorted against with some stated facts and a bit of mongrel.

The silence from the president and CEO is understandable (given the new nature of this senior leadership team), to a point however, I think they are not far away from being in a position to announce a review into the football department - given the latter has now had some time see the club up close and with fresh eyes.

Until they do, I want the club to tighten up its media strategy, talk up the younger players and prioritise the extension of Bontempelli's contract.