Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

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  • bulldogtragic
    The List Manager
    • Jan 2007
    • 34289

    #46
    Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

    Originally posted by Sedat
    No secret reviews and no internal reviews by the people that should be under review themselves.
    After the promised review and to release it - then nothing - forgive me if I don’t hold my breath for it. Not a negative or positive, I just don’t think we are the organisation that swings axes in management. For the most part (not all), the people that have left have been resignations. I think like fringe players getting extra tests, we just keep backing our people. No matter the skills not improving, injury management, development, poor assistants, fitness or whatever. Our ethos is always keep backing them in. I’d be shocked for the highly competent (yet nearly invisible) president to sit down Bains and go through the management with a view to renewal, new ideas, refreshing the departments, challenging the status quo by demanding better performers. We are clearly happy with everyone in place and outside of anyone wishing to have a career elsewhere by resigning, I think everyone will be staying. That’s just the culture as I see it. The question I can’t answer, is how many of our people would be employed by the bigger clubs in the same roles?
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

    Comment

    • angelopetraglia
      Bulldog Team of the Century
      • Nov 2008
      • 6853

      #47
      Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

      Originally posted by bulldogtragic
      After the promised review and to release it - then nothing - forgive me if I don?t hold my breath for it. Not a negative or positive, I just don?t think we are the organisation that swings axes in management. For the most part (not all), the people that have left have been resignations. I think like fringe players getting extra tests, we just keep backing our people. No matter the skills not improving, injury management, development, poor assistants, fitness or whatever. Our ethos is always keep backing them in. I?d be shocked for the highly competent (yet nearly invisible) president to sit down Bains and go through the management with a view to renewal, new ideas, refreshing the departments, challenging the status quo by demanding better performers. We are clearly happy with everyone in place and outside of anyone wishing to have a career elsewhere by resigning, I think everyone will be staying. That?s just the culture as I see it. The question I can?t answer, is how many of our people would be employed by the bigger clubs in the same roles?
      Understand your point. But no miracle answer in so called "reviews".

      How many "reviews" have Carlton have? They have some deep investigation every few years. Blow the place up. Make a lot of noise. Start again.

      They have not played in a single finals series in 10 years. They have not made a PF in over 20 years. They have 100K members and have a lot more resources and financial backers than us.

      Comment

      • GVGjr
        Moderator
        • Nov 2006
        • 44721

        #48
        Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

        Originally posted by Sedat
        I understand the discussion on JOD but in the modern game there is an absolute premium on tall intercept defenders, and we have clearly identified JOD as someone who can fill this critical void. Geelong did the same fast-tracking of Blicavs and I'm personally ok with it, even if the whole selection integrity discussion can of worms is potentially opened up.

        Agree 100% on Darcy. Get his body get right for the next 10-12 years.
        The one counter to the JOD intercept defender role is we have played him more forward so far in his early career.
        I'm bullish on him as a player for the future but he can develop at Footscray and it doesn't have to be in the seniors
        Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

        Comment

        • Mantis
          Hall of Fame
          • Apr 2007
          • 15475

          #49
          Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

          Originally posted by bornadog
          I have long said we over rate our team. We lack a few key roles to get us into top 4.
          when I put this to woof posters In a thread, most thought we had the players and didn?t need any specific players.
          Collingwood are on the top of the ladder with KPP’s (besides Moore) who are just average AFL players and a mix match of flankers who just play their roles, sure they have some A grade talent, but no more than us.

          What’s different?

          Comment

          • Bornadog
            WOOF Clubhouse Leader
            • Jan 2007
            • 66851

            #50
            Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

            Originally posted by Mantis
            Collingwood are on the top of the ladder with KPP’s (besides Moore) who are just average AFL players and a mix match of flankers who just play their roles, sure they have some A grade talent, but no more than us.

            What’s different?
            Difference is pace. Who would you prefer in your team:

            Quaynor, Noble, McCreery, Johnson, Crisp, Hill

            or McNeil, Scott, VDM, West
            FFC: Established 1883

            Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

            Comment

            • DOG GOD
              Bulldog Team of the Century
              • Jul 2007
              • 6557

              #51
              Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

              Originally posted by bornadog
              Difference is pace. Who would you prefer in your team:

              Quaynor, Noble, McCreery, Johnson, Crisp, Hill

              or McNeil, Scott, VDM, West
              And those Coll boys know how to tackle and make it stick. Throw Maynard in there as well.
              I will never see #16 the same!!

              Comment

              • Mantis
                Hall of Fame
                • Apr 2007
                • 15475

                #52
                Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

                Originally posted by bornadog
                Difference is pace. Who would you prefer in your team:

                Quaynor, Noble, McCreery, Johnson, Crisp, Hill

                or McNeil, Scott, VDM, West
                If the sport was athletics I might agree that pure pace was vital, but it’s intent and how you use your legs that’s important, and it’s where we fail.

                Comment

                • jeemak
                  Bulldog Legend
                  • Oct 2010
                  • 21844

                  #53
                  Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

                  At what point do we also just say the guys who play for Collingwood are actually really good footballers as well?
                  TF is this?.........Obviously you're not a golfer.

                  Comment

                  • Bulldog Joe
                    Premiership Moderator
                    • Jul 2009
                    • 5586

                    #54
                    Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

                    Originally posted by jeemak
                    At what point do we also just say the guys who play for Collingwood are actually really good footballers as well?
                    This the issue I have when we talk rebuild.

                    Who actually valued Collingwood's list at the end of 2021.

                    They haven't done too much more than tweak some things and change their coach.

                    I would suspect that everyone rated our list ahead of Collingwood and yet they are now premiership favorites with a couple of trades and adding some fringe players from outside.

                    Does anyone think they have had a rebuild.
                    Life is to be Enjoyed not Endured

                    Comment

                    • Bornadog
                      WOOF Clubhouse Leader
                      • Jan 2007
                      • 66851

                      #55
                      Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

                      Originally posted by jeemak
                      At what point do we also just say the guys who play for Collingwood are actually really good footballers as well?
                      That is what I am saying. Compare the two sets of players?
                      FFC: Established 1883

                      Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

                      Comment

                      • Bornadog
                        WOOF Clubhouse Leader
                        • Jan 2007
                        • 66851

                        #56
                        Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

                        Originally posted by Bulldog Joe
                        This the issue I have when we talk rebuild.

                        Who actually valued Collingwood's list at the end of 2021.

                        They haven't done too much more than tweak some things and change their coach.

                        I would suspect that everyone rated our list ahead of Collingwood and yet they are now premiership favorites with a couple of trades and adding some fringe players from outside.

                        Does anyone think they have had a rebuild.
                        Yes, they have completely tweaked their team
                        FFC: Established 1883

                        Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

                        Comment

                        • Bulldog Joe
                          Premiership Moderator
                          • Jul 2009
                          • 5586

                          #57
                          Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

                          Originally posted by bornadog
                          Yes, they have completely tweaked their team
                          How have they completely tweaked the team?

                          They have changed how they play but the only really significant addition is Nick Daicos.

                          That doesn't constitute a rebuild.
                          Life is to be Enjoyed not Endured

                          Comment

                          • Bornadog
                            WOOF Clubhouse Leader
                            • Jan 2007
                            • 66851

                            #58
                            Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

                            Originally posted by Bulldog Joe
                            How have they completely tweaked the team?

                            They have changed how they play but the only really significant addition is Nick Daicos.

                            That doesn't constitute a rebuild.
                            2021
                            saac Chugg (del)*
                            Levi Greenwood (ret)
                            Mark Keane (ret)
                            Max Lynch (trd)
                            Chris Mayne (ret)
                            Jay Rantall (del)
                            Brayden Sier (del)
                            Josh Thomas (ret)
                            Anton Tohill (ret)

                            2022

                            Callum Brown (del)
                            Tyler Brown (del)
                            Isaac Chugg (del)
                            Brodie Grundy (trd)
                            Ollie Henry (trd)
                            Jack Madgen (del)
                            Liam McMahon (del)
                            Cooper Murley* (del)
                            Caleb Poulter (del)
                            Jordan Roughead (ret)
                            FFC: Established 1883

                            Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

                            Comment

                            • bulldogtragic
                              The List Manager
                              • Jan 2007
                              • 34289

                              #59
                              Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

                              Collingwood:

                              2020:

                              Picks 17, 19, 23, 30, 31, 44 (McReery) (RD 13 (Ginnivan), 28)

                              2021:

                              Pick 4 (Daicos), 45, 49, 52, (RD 2, 20)

                              2022:

                              Picks 19, 28, 48 (RD 16)



                              Collingwood did really well out of the draft. They hit it hard in 2020 and then bagged Daicos. I think it?s been helpful for them, and they have plenty of kids still to impact and keep their window open longer. I have no issue with doing something similar this year with our two first rounders and ability to take Croft late first round too.
                              Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

                              Comment

                              • Bulldog Joe
                                Premiership Moderator
                                • Jul 2009
                                • 5586

                                #60
                                Re: Western Bulldogs accused of wasting golden era

                                So the significant out was Grundy.
                                Everyone else was fringe or worse except for those retiring.
                                How does that constitute a rebuild
                                Life is to be Enjoyed not Endured

                                Comment

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