Lake gone

[LostDoggy]

Re: Lake gone

I dont believe Dawes is the answer gents. He will be the main target and take the oppositions best defender. It will be a slaughter, he cant beat the oppositions second best. I say lets start from scratch. But I say this............If GWS or GC win a flag before us, I will be pi$$ed!!!

[The Adelaide Connection]

Re: Lake gone

There are only two things that make me feel easier about this saga:

1, We know the state of Brian's body (and I don't wish injury on anyone, let alone a former champion of this club) and we traded him because we know that he is going to struggle.

2, There was a post by a Woofer a few years ago who was lucky enough to be present with the Bulldogs on draft day.

I can't remember who the woofer was or when it was, but basically the poster was shocked about how the Bulldogs brains trust already knew (almost exactly) the order players would go in in the early rounds. So maybe we know that we had to get 21 off the Hawks in order to get someone we desperately want.

Time will tell I guess.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Lake gone

.

I'm dissapointed to see him go but in a year or two i'll be much happier when we see Brian retire and the players we got for the trade just starting to kick on with a whole career ahead of them.

Certainly sad to see him go though.

I agree, everyone is a winner here. Well we will know in a couple of years.

I'd be surprised if Lake plays a full season next year.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Lake gone

If we trade for Dawes, I'll watch our games from home.

You are allowed to criticize if you do

[Doc26]

Re: Lake gone

There are only two things that make me feel easier about this saga:

1, We know the state of Brian's body (and I don't wish injury on anyone, let alone a former champion of this club) and we traded him because we know that he is going to struggle.

2, There was a post by a Woofer a few years ago who was lucky enough to be present with the Bulldogs on draft day.

I can't remember who the woofer was or when it was, but basically the poster was shocked about how the Bulldogs brains trust already knew (almost exactly) the order players would go in in the early rounds. So maybe we know that we had to get 21 off the Hawks in order to get someone we desperately want.

Time will tell I guess.

Good observation. This may well be a telling point that shouldn't be lost. We may well have only gained 6 spots to 21 but the difference is that it is now a first round selection which Clubs are more protective of giving up, and rightly so, than their 2nd round.

[Bornadog]

Re: Lake gone

While admirable, you could also argue that is also a big factor in our failure as a club.
No one idolizes their heroes more than WB supporters, perhaps so much that it is to the deteriment of the team/club in achieving success.

Turn that around and maybe that's why we have failed because we lose so many good players.

I don't see the Hawks, the Pies, the Essendons losing their champion players.

[1eyedog]

Re: Lake gone

I am not old quite enough to remember Herb Henderson, but I rate Brian Lake and John Jillard as the two best defenders I have seen in the club in my time. Small proviso there, I kind of think of Chris Grant and Ted Whitten as forwards.

What a shame he didn't want to finish his career with us.

And what a poor deal, all round, if he did.

Thanks for some great moments Brian.

ps Honorable mention for my favourite defender: Dale Morris.

Peter Foster went all right too.

Don't know what to make of this, there has obviously been some pretty frank discussions behind closed doors. I think I'll wait to see what comes out of tomorrow before I pass judgement.

[Sedat]

Re: Lake gone

1, We know the state of Brian's body (and I don't wish injury on anyone, let alone a former champion of this club) and we traded him because we know that he is going to struggle.

Playing devil's advocate here, Lake is a better injury risk than either of Dale Morris and Tom Williams down back. The injury thing is a bit of a myth - take 2011 out of the eqution and Lake has been a very durable player for over 10 years at this level.

[1eyedog]

Re: Lake gone

If we trade for Dawes, I'll watch our games from home.

Ditto, he makes Jade Rawlings look like a champion

[mjp]

Re: Lake gone

I understand the 'footy is a business, list management' side of the argument. On that side of it, I always maintain that the "winner" of any trade is the team that ends up with the best player...Hawthorn have the best full-back in the game and we have 'hope'. Advantage Hawks.

The argument that says 'Next year he would walk' is fatally flawed. Brian is a complicated person. I don't think anyone could predict what he will be thinking/feeling this time next year. To me, conceding now that he was 'GONE' anyway is sending a message to the rest of the players (not to mention supporters) that 2013 is already in the books as a failure and we are not expecting too many wins...after all, winning players are happy players.

The argument that says 'He only has 2 years left' is fatally flawed. A happy Brian could play for another 5 years. He does not rely on athleticism to play - as many here have mentioned, he is a zoning player who doesn't play on anyone anyway. So why exactly will he decline so rapidly??

All in all, to me we just have so few 'blue chip' players. Lake is (was!) still one of them. And we seem to have let him go on day one of the trade period without a real fight. I am sad he is gone. I am disappointed we seem to be conceding the 2013 season before it has even began...and I am really, really, really hoping we know what we are doing.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Re: Lake gone

Playing devil's advocate here, Lake is a better injury risk than either of Dale Morris and Tom Williams down back. The injury thing is a bit of a myth - take 2011 out of the eqution and Lake has been a very durable player for over 10 years at this level.

Yeah I agree, just clutching at positivity straws. After his operations in 2011 I tend to have a feeling that his form this year, which was very good, was only his "year after" form (similar to when players come back from leg breaks and acl's) and next year will be even better.

Gosh I hope pick 21 is the next Chris Grant. No pressure.

[1eyedog]

Re: Lake gone

Turn that around and maybe that's why we have failed because we lose so many good players.

I don't see the Hawks, the Pies, the Essendons losing their champion players.

Look it's just a reality really isn't it.

I'm not going to spend too much time on this but

Essendon - Paul Salmon to Hawthorn and Roger Merritt to Brisbane

Collingwood - Peter Moore to Melbourne

Lastly, imagine Hawthorn supporters dismay when their second/perhaps third best player ever went to Collingwood and then Sydney.

You could pull out a heap from each club.

[Bornadog]

Re: Lake gone

Look it's just a reality really isn't it.

I'm not going to spend too much time on this but

Essendon - Paul Salmon to Hawthorn and Roger Merritt to Brisbane

Collingwood - Peter Moore to Melbourne

Lastly, imagine Hawthorn supporters dismay when their second/perhaps third best player ever went to Collingwood and then Sydney.

You could pull out a heap from each club.

Not as many as the Dogs. We lost how many Brownlow medallists, plus gave away three players that went on to get Brownlows. No other club in history has done what we have.

[LongWait]

Re: Lake gone

I understand the 'footy is a business, list management' side of the argument. On that side of it, I always maintain that the "winner" of any trade is the team that ends up with the best player...Hawthorn have the best full-back in the game and we have 'hope'. Advantage Hawks.

The argument that says 'Next year he would walk' is fatally flawed. Brian is a complicated person. I don't think anyone could predict what he will be thinking/feeling this time next year. To me, conceding now that he was 'GONE' anyway is sending a message to the rest of the players (not to mention supporters) that 2013 is already in the books as a failure and we are not expecting too many wins...after all, winning players are happy players.

The argument that says 'He only has 2 years left' is fatally flawed. A happy Brian could play for another 5 years. He does not rely on athleticism to play - as many here have mentioned, he is a zoning player who doesn't play on anyone anyway. So why exactly will he decline so rapidly??

All in all, to me we just have so few 'blue chip' players. Lake is (was!) still one of them. And we seem to have let him go on day one of the trade period without a real fight. I am sad he is gone. I am disappointed we seem to be conceding the 2013 season before it has even began...and I am really, really, really hoping we know what we are doing.

There are a lot of unknowns in the mystery that is Brian Lake.

With respect, I think we could say that you can't know for sure any of the points that you claim make fatal flaws in the various arguments to proceed with the Lake trade. There are a lot of unprovable suppositions in both sets of arguments.

We have to accept that it's been done, like it or not, and we have to move on and hope that the player we secure with pick 21 will be a champion for a long time after Lake has retired.

[Bornadog]

Re: Lake gone

Not happy if this is true:

Lake, who had one year of his contract remaining, will be paid out by the Western Bulldogs because he was going to be a free agent next year anyway.

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