The 2021 & 2022 Aggressive Trade Scenario

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  • bulldogtragic
    The List Manager
    • Jan 2007
    • 34289

    #1

    The 2021 & 2022 Aggressive Trade Scenario

    This is going to be a long post, probably even by my standards. I will try to cover the various rules and concepts that everything has to work through. Sorry if it's confusing but I will try to break things down as best I can. I'd prefer to as best that i can explain all the different factors, rules and regulations and try to bring you through the discussion about the feasibility or not of a very aggressive approach at the trade table. If I mention your favourite player, I apologise in advance, but its an attempt at a reasoned exploration of the concept and as you will read the names can change for the most part, with a few exceptions.

    From the outset, this is just a theory, a proof of concept, for what a very aggressive approach to the 2021 & 2022 Trade & Draft. Nothing more, nothing less. Take or leave whatever works for you, and disagree with rest.

    The AFEL laws, rules and regulations that are relevant to the draft, trade, deficit etc. are not all publicly available. Some are in the formal corporate rules (197 Pages) are public, however the General Counsel of the AFEL sends info direct to clubs that are not made public. However, some footy journalists have seen the documents and reported on them, and I have used their reporting of them to inform my analysis. As this is just one scenario (of a million that could arise) I will put in some others clubs and players to make reading this scenario a little easier. If you don't like the player, find another similarly valued player and use that if that better works for your reading.

    As a prelude, our Sam Power has the ability to be very aggressive when he wants to be. For example, in 2019 we secured Bruce & Keath to fill large gaps on the list and the draft consequences were just our first rounder and then the 12th & 4th last picks in the draft. We were involved in a Future Pick Trade/Swap too.

    So lets get cracking:

    Delistings (4):

    Jong
    Martin
    Hayes (R)
    Cavarra (R)


    Aggressive Trade 1:

    Trade out our First Rounder for a Ruckman, that ideally has some draft point synergy. For illustrative purposes only, Peter Ladhams has he seems gettable. So, Ladhams for Our First & Fourth Rounders. But we want our future Fourth Rounder exchanged for Port's future Third Rounder.

    Th reasoning is Ladhams isn't getting sustained senior footy at Port and can with us and we have a good pick on the table. You might think what good does our Fourth do them? Firstly, they have dibs on Jase Burgoyne who looks a good sort and they are currently looking at a deficit themselves. Our Fourth Rounder by the time Free Agency compo is factored in is zero Draft Points towards us, as we he need to match a bloody high bid. But... after Collingwood & Bulldogs both burn through around 8 picks in the First Two Picks, the shuffling down begins. That now shuffles our Fourth Rounder into a Draft Point bearing Pick for Port Adelaide. Now if there's another one or two bid on before Burgoyne (which could very well happen), Port could conceivably net about 100+ Draft Points from holding our Fourth Rounder. By the future swap, we come out ahead by about 100 Draft Points overall. Win/Win.

    The wash up for us is we net a First Ruck in Ladhams, who can go forward and get about 100 extra Draft Points. This will increase our deficit limit with the AFEL.

    The wash up for them is Two First Round Picks at the draft and moving closer to having Burgoyne without deficit, for a player they're not regularly playing.

    Under this or a similar trade, our 2021 First Rounder is gone, and we look to trades to get us enough Draft Points this year.


    Trades/Free Agent Compo (4):

    Young (Future 4th Rounder)
    Wallis (Third Round Compo, Pick 54) - 220 Draft Points
    Johanissen - Circa Pick 44 - 362 Draft Points (or multiple later picks to a higher value)
    Lipinski - Circa Pick 32 - 584 Draft Points (Sydney seems to be mentioned)
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Total Draft Points: 1,166


    Total Players Out: 6 Primary List, 2 Rookie List


    Total Player Payments:

    (Numbers for argument sake, except JJ's salary is actual)

    JJ is on $600,000
    Wally say $350,000 ($950,000)
    Martin say $300,000 ($1,250,000)
    Lipisnki say $250,000 ($1,500,000)
    Young on say $250,000 ($1,750,000)
    Jong on say $250,000 ($2,000,000)
    (Rookie base salaries outside cap)

    Now lets say we elevate Khamis, Gardner & Sweet and Darcy is on a rookie contract. We can trade for two very good players and not impact our TPP and money needed for next season with some good players out. But the crucial player to encourage to 'explore the market' is JJ. We simply can't pay huge money to a guy getting not a lot of possessions, tackles and .4 Goals Per game. JJ like Dahlhaus going to a better, more secure contract works for everyone really well and importantly it opens up the field for us.


    Sam Darcy:

    North has come out and said that they will bid on Daicos & Darcy 'for draft integrity'. Im going to read into this Darcy at Pick 2. Power Rankings from Doerre (ESPN) and Twomey (AFEL Media) has Darcy at three but the chatter of Darcy at at least Pick 2 is very real.

    Pick 2 = 2,517 Draft Points - less 20% discount of 503 Draft Points = 2,014 Draft Points


    Draft Point Calculation on Darcy:

    Draft Points Needed: 2,014
    Current Draft Points: 1,166
    ------------------------------
    Draft Points Deficit: 848 owed in 2022


    A short explanation on Draft Point Deficits:

    The AFEL cap the deficit based on the Draft Points attached to Picks 18, 36, 54 & 72. But things can change as per a document sent to clubs detailing the finer points.

    However, if you trade out a Pick from any round, the AFEL reduce our limit by the Draft Points in the corresponding round. However again, if you trade in future picks your deficit can be increased.

    Before the 2022 Trade Period begins, the AFEL will apply the deficit to the picks. You can't get around the deficit. You can't roll it into further year. It is what it is, so trading next year doesn't improve the deficit brought forward from this year. Which is fair.


    A short explanation of Future Trading:

    We can either trade our 2022 First Rounder out, or multiple later round picks, but not both. So if we can hold onto at least a Second, Third & Fourth Rounder we can trade out the 2022 First Rounder.

    A club also has to use at least 2 First Round selection every 4 Years on a rolling basis. A reported on document sent to all clubs says that if a club matches a bid in the First Round that counts as usage. So although we traded out our First Rounder last year and say we did this year, because Jamarra & Darcy were First Round selections, we would not be constrained by the '2 in 4' rule and would be free to trade the 2022 First Rounder as an example.


    Summary:

    When the AFEL allows us to match the bid on Darcy at Pick 2, we need to show them 848 Draft Points based on the end of Round picks used to determine the deficit limit.

    Leaving aside the 2022 First Rounder:

    Second: 502 Draft Points
    Third: 220 Draft Points
    Third: 220 Draft Points (Port Adelaide)
    Fourth 19 Draft Points (Lewis Young)
    ------------------------------------------
    Total Allowable Deficit: 961
    AFEL Wants: 848
    Surplus: 113

    That means we can trade out our 2022 First Rounder and still have the deficit covered, with Darcy at Pick 2. If we wanted to hedge against the risk of Darcy going pick 1, it's just a matter our 113 Surplus and an additional 273 Draft Points. Draft Points trades on both 32 & 44 (splitting them into 4 picks, but higher draft points) could make this up. Not having a list spots open - to draft picks taken into the draft - ratio problem with 5 picks I'd think that would be the best course of action to reduce the 2022 deficit and increase the likelihood of getting late picks back next year, while hedging on the Pick 1.

    There is a rule saying clubs must use a First Rounder in 2 of every 4 years on a rolling basis. The documents sent to clubs and reported on says that if you match a bid inside the First Round that counts as using a First Rounder. That means would be free to trade it if we wanted to. Which opens up the field:

    a) Trade it for a KPD
    b) Trade it for another good player that comes into the market
    c) Just let it burn through next draft. The deficit takes the points from the highest pick we hold. If we hold onto it, it's going to go and leave us with late picks. Not my preferred option.
    d) Use the spare salary cap on a Free Agent KPD (Astbury etc. - that would cancel out any Compo from Wallis so that needs careful consideration about where our points come from) and Trade for a high pressure forward

    Now, if a good player like Richards requests a trade out and we can't convince him to stay:

    e) Hit up KPD Pre Agents. McStay, Barass & Moore. Why not be ambitious. With Richards or similar going to them with the future First Rounder, or getting us a late First Rounder that gets packaged into two First Rounders. All three clubs will say no, but let them knock back the picks especially if they are rebuilding. For Collingwood, although they'd not get a high compo next year as Moore is gone, they go into the draft with 3 First Rounders. If they're the club that wants to supply the future Fourth for Lewis Young so they have some mature KPD cover, I'm fine. If it seals the deal, we can talk about taking on 'some' of their Treloar debt being covered by us.


    Draft:

    This is the flip side. But it's perhaps not as bad as we might think.

    2021:

    We put Sam Darcy into our club, huge result for us, just massive. Our next available is about Pick 90. However, if Raak was bid on at say Pick 45 or 51 (i.e. Essendon's picks), then we can use Pick 90 to get him (assuming we want him). In this scenario, We've had Pick 2 & 45/51 while getting in a good Ruck & KPD. Now, assuming we want MacPherson too, if he's bid on passed Pick 56, we can use Pick 100. So we have some cover of kids we've been watching for years if we want to take them and don't sit out to the very end. Of course, either could be rookie listed if there's no bids. We could also hold open a spot for the SSP or a DFA and there's the option to revert the list from 36/6 to 38/4 (Primary vs Rookie List). With elevations of Khamis, Gardner and Sweet things aren't too bad this year in the scenario above. There's also the rookie draft looking for gold too.

    2022:

    So the key here is to remember that the AFEL's debt limits on deficit are based on the end of the round. Hopefully we win the premiership, but if we fall short our picks will be better and we will have more Draft Points than the actual deficit. If we've got picks from other clubs who aren't likely to seriously, seriously contend, again the picks will in real terms will be better which gives us more Draft Points. Which could mean one or two Fourth Rounders next year, as the live picks. Not huge.

    But again there's the chance of NGA kids and there's father/son hopefuls too. So that can cushion the blow. If McNeil continues to develop as expected, we can elevate him next year as one of the three minimum changes. We should all expect some players who aren't getting a regular game to request a trade out and that gets us back into the draft. So I wouldn't call it dire either.


    List Changes:

    We lose two experienced, yet very much underperforming small/medium forwards in JJ & Wallis. A midfielder in Lipinski that can't get passed our depth and likely what the coach wants, same for Young. We don't seem to be losing things from our strengths.

    Incoming means:

    Ruck: Ladhams etc, English, Sweet, Darcy
    KPD: Astbury/Moore etc, Keath, Gardner, Schache, Cordy

    Our weaknesses are being addressed.
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023
  • bulldogtragic
    The List Manager
    • Jan 2007
    • 34289

    #2
    Re: The 2021 & 2022 Aggressive Trade Scenario

    So This Scenario:

    Traded Out: JJ, Wallis, Lipinski, Young
    Total Player Payments: $2,000,000 saved next year (inc. delistings/retirements)
    Picks Out: 2021 & 2022 All

    Trade In: Good Ruck, Good KPD (Trade or Free Agent - other player type possible)
    Total Player Payments: Still in the Black
    Players Drafted: Darcy, possibly Raak &/or Macpherson, possible 2022 NGA &/or Father/Sons
    Picks In: Likely to get back something in the Fourth Round in 2022


    i've been looking at the very conservative approach, the 'toe in the water' approach and this was the outright aggression at the trade table approach. The rationale was every club uses a stack of mid range draft picks to cover their matched bids in the draft, happens every year. Often moving out the First Rounder so they aren't burning it. So reflecting on this practice it occurred to me, since we are almost 100% certain to go into deficit (which isn't necessarily a bad thing), we are we holding the 2022 First Rounder to burn it? We didn't do it last year, we won't do it this year, so why do it next year? Its was a bit of disconnect for me. If the rules are returning as they were in 2019, then it makes sense to restructure our debt visa-vie our draft points. By brining in the extra Third Rounder next year to increase our deficit, we can off load the First Rounder provided all the myriad rules and regulations are met, which they certainly seem to be about points deficit, future trading and other draft rules.

    The flip side in successive drafts with minimal presence. But as mentioned we have priority access kids who might mitigate that and elevations to bring onto the primary. As I mentioned at the top, it's not dissimilar to 2019 in the aggressive stance of trading out picks and future swaps. I don't think that has hurt us not having a presence through the middle section of the draft. With the 4th last pick of the draft we picked up Riley Garcia. So there is still value to be had late in the draft according to our recruiters. Unlike 2019 though, it would be across two successive drafts. That's the key difference.

    It's very much the 'AfterPay' strategy. Get the good ruck now. Get the good KPD now. Get the best KPP in the draft now. Enjoy it all for a year and then have it paid back in full next year. In this scenario, we would be using all the rules to the full extent of advantage. Make of it as you will.



    (Note: Ladhams, the KPD names and a good player requesting out, i.e. Richards, are for illustrative purposes only as it's hard to write and read without providing one. The names aren't our real importance right now, its the scenario of all out aggression at the trade table and the risk of it and how open we should be to risk or tolerate it in medium or small doses or not all)

    (Note: I'm assuming the media reporting of these non-public rules are all accurate and applicable)
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

    Comment

    • DOG GOD
      Bulldog Team of the Century
      • Jul 2007
      • 6617

      #3
      Re: The 2021 & 2022 Aggressive Trade Scenario

      I had to read this twice to get my head around it BT. Unbelievable as always. Why aren’t you sitting at Power’s table ?
      I agree with everything you have written. We need to go hard while we have the “free hits” of JUH and Darcy. Geez imagine a Barass or Moore as well.
      I will never see #16 the same!!

      Comment

      • bulldogtragic
        The List Manager
        • Jan 2007
        • 34289

        #4
        Re: The 2021 & 2022 Aggressive Trade Scenario

        Originally posted by DOG GOD
        I had to read this twice to get my head around it BT. Unbelievable as always. Why aren’t you sitting at Power’s table ?
        I agree with everything you have written. We need to go hard while we have the “free hits” of JUH and Darcy. Geez imagine a Barass or Moore as well.
        Thanks DG. I just love thinking and discussing this stuff. It’s like jig saw puzzle, 3D chess and a rubik’s cube all in one.

        I’d happily do anything for this footy club, for free, so no problems with the soft cap!
        Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

        Comment

        • DOG GOD
          Bulldog Team of the Century
          • Jul 2007
          • 6617

          #5
          Re: The 2021 & 2022 Aggressive Trade Scenario

          You certainly have a talent and understanding of this stuff that i have never seen before. The explanations of how it all works and how it all can come together is mind boggling. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and most importantly taking the time to write this up and share. 10/10
          I will never see #16 the same!!

          Comment

          • comrade
            Hall of Fame
            • Jun 2008
            • 18103

            #6
            Re: The 2021 & 2022 Aggressive Trade Scenario

            Just get it done BT. I want a 3 peat.
            Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.

            Comment

            • KT31
              WOOF Member
              • Jul 2008
              • 5455

              #7
              Re: The 2021 & 2022 Aggressive Trade Scenario

              As always, great work BT.
              It's better to die on our feet than live on our knees.

              Comment

              • Scraggers
                Premiership Moderator
                • Jun 2008
                • 3584

                #8
                Re: The 2021 & 2022 Aggressive Trade Scenario

                As usual, great work BT. I truly appreciate your contribution to WOOF especially your draft scenarios.

                Whilst I love the romance of Lipinski (Bulldog supporter watching the 2016 GF one year, playing for the Bulldogs the next) I do see the value he offers us and his chance of getting a better run at another club.

                However, I have a lot of difficulty getting my head around trading out our only Norm Smith winner (JJ) and a father/son and current vice captain (Wally). This is my issue, but again goes to the romantic notions of football and not the business of football. We have an abundance of running half back flankers. One or two have to go. But do we risk losing a Caleb Daniel or an Ed Richards to keep the romance in footy (JJ and Wally staying) … so I get it, but I’m not happy we have to do it. Would a Jordon Sweet trade bring the same as a Wally or a JJ? If we are looking at bringing in an established ruck, the Sweet moves back another rung doesn’t he?

                Another player to throw into the conversation is Bailey Smith. I love what he brings to the club (particularly his Instagram followers) but with a fit Dunkley and Treloar, does he go down a rung or two?

                Like yourself BT, this is looking at the draft with an aggressive eye. Is there a passive approach where we get to keep the names and still have the points to get Darcy and Raak?

                Comment

                • Bulldog4life
                  WOOF Member
                  • Oct 2007
                  • 9607

                  #9
                  Re: The 2021 & 2022 Aggressive Trade Scenario

                  Great write up BT. You are an asset to WOOF. It is difficult to imagine that some of our players we like will most likely have to go. That is the hard part for me but has to be done unfortunately.

                  Comment

                  • Bornadog
                    WOOF Clubhouse Leader
                    • Jan 2007
                    • 67675

                    #10
                    Re: The 2021 & 2022 Aggressive Trade Scenario

                    Originally posted by Scraggers
                    Another player to throw into the conversation is Bailey Smith. I love what he brings to the club (particularly his Instagram followers) but with a fit Dunkley and Treloar, does he go down a rung or two?
                    Smith is an interesting one. I have always felt he was not a long term Bulldog as he was a mad Hawks supporter growing up.

                    Hawks are in need of midfileders and will most likely hold 1st, 2nd or 3rd draft pick.

                    Something to think about BT.

                    PS: These threads do my head in, so I am glad and thankful you know what you are doing. Thank you
                    FFC: Established 1883

                    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

                    Comment

                    • bulldogtragic
                      The List Manager
                      • Jan 2007
                      • 34289

                      #11
                      Re: The 2021 & 2022 Aggressive Trade Scenario

                      Originally posted by Scraggers
                      As usual, great work BT. I truly appreciate your contribution to WOOF especially your draft scenarios.

                      Whilst I love the romance of Lipinski (Bulldog supporter watching the 2016 GF one year, playing for the Bulldogs the next) I do see the value he offers us and his chance of getting a better run at another club.

                      However, I have a lot of difficulty getting my head around trading out our only Norm Smith winner (JJ) and a father/son and current vice captain (Wally). This is my issue, but again goes to the romantic notions of football and not the business of football. We have an abundance of running half back flankers. One or two have to go. But do we risk losing a Caleb Daniel or an Ed Richards to keep the romance in footy (JJ and Wally staying) … so I get it, but I’m not happy we have to do it. Would a Jordon Sweet trade bring the same as a Wally or a JJ? If we are looking at bringing in an established ruck, the Sweet moves back another rung doesn’t he?

                      Another player to throw into the conversation is Bailey Smith. I love what he brings to the club (particularly his Instagram followers) but with a fit Dunkley and Treloar, does he go down a rung or two?

                      Like yourself BT, this is looking at the draft with an aggressive eye. Is there a passive approach where we get to keep the names and still have the points to get Darcy and Raak?
                      We need to actively trade. The passive approach hamstrings us significantly. In a passive approach we would need to burn a First Rounder to keep Wally & JJ as we’d need to increase our deficit by holding onto our Future First or holding onto this year’s First Rounder. Then possibly still impacting the Future First. So that’s the equation to consider. Do we want to use or trade a First Rounder, to keep JJ & Wally? No from me.

                      Also, JJ & Wally are on a combined salary at or close to $1,000,000. These are their 2020 stats:

                      JJ: 14 Games, 11.3 Disposals, 2.4 Marks, .4 Goals, .9 GA, 2.1 Tackles
                      Wally: 6 Games, 10.2 Disposals, 3.3 Marks, .7 Goals, .2 GA, 1.7 Tackles

                      As a comparison: McNeil: 10 Games, 9.9 Disposals, 1.8 Marks, .6 Goals, .4 GA, 2.3 Tackles

                      A first year rookie on minimum rookie wage has virtually the same output as JJ & Wally. McNeil’s salary isn’t counted in our TPP, while JJ & Wally’s combined $1,000,000 is. The Return on Investment is simply not there any more. They are no longer the players they used to be. It’s a shame, but they’re not. But they have some draft point value which makes them expendable.

                      So now the question is do we want JJ & Wally or a First Rounder, AND, can McNeil, Weightman, Garcia, VDM etc match of better the output while saving us $1,000,000? With my rational hat on, I want the First Rounder and $1,000,000.

                      But I see us not losing sentimentality if we get Darcy & Raak. The Darcy family become the first dynasty at out club with three generations in a row pulling on out jumper. Raak is a Western Jets & Footscray VFL boy with a South African heritage. There is a lot of romance to come into the club too, don’t underestimate this. We’re not selling the farm for Judd or Tim Kelly.

                      As for other players you mention:

                      Jordan Sweet: I’d allow Martin to gracefully retire, so he’s still the third rung if we can bring in a good ruck whose not consistently injured. His recent VFL form since Gawn ripped him to shreds has been absolutely woeful. I think right now he has the same value as Tom Campbell, which is as a delisted Free Agent if he’s not with us next year. So that doesn’t help us with Draft Points.

                      Bailey Smith: If he requested a trade I’d listen to what the proposed new club offered. But I wouldn’t be shopping him.

                      Caleb Daniel: See above. The half back flanker to lose is JJ, to my mind. He can’t get a gig there and really doesn’t deserve to hold his spot as a forward.

                      Ed Richards: See above. The difference here is that he’s out of contract. If he requests a trade out, that me gives us more of a stronger hand to package him up with a First Rounder and try to land a bigger fish (or get a good pick and package them together for same).


                      A passive approach does nothing for our window. Holding on to two players whose output can be easily replaced hamstrings our trade options, burns a First Rounder and ties up $1,000,000 is two players who could conceivably play a lot of VFL footy next year. Trading out good players with plenty of good footy in them, to keep JJ & Wally, doesn’t seem the best way to strengthen our list in our window. Especially since other players can come in and cover them I’m next season. I understand it sucks from a romance perspective, and there’s a lot who will feel like this, but to get a Top 2 Pick player with a famous bulldog family name necessitates multiple trades. It’s a matter of who. If JJ & Wally bring in a heap of Draft Points and free up a $1,000,000, for me it’s clear. If we can then look at trading out a couple of First Rounders to improve our list in key areas in our window while securing Priority Access kid, including the best KPP this year at the draft, then to me it’s clear. The flip side is if we can’t offer them long term job security (I can’t see how we can), and other clubs are willing to (Dahl to Geelong, Bruce to us as examples) then this is a win/win for players and club.
                      Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

                      Comment

                      • 1eyedog
                        Hall of Fame
                        • Mar 2008
                        • 13387

                        #12
                        Re: The 2021 & 2022 Aggressive Trade Scenario

                        Thanks BT next level as always. I'm a little concerned about our first going to Port for Ladhams. As you've said he's not being played and if we're in his ear with opportunity and slightly more coin and he nominates us we are in a strong position to potentially negotiate a sweeter deal more weighted in our favour.

                        I understand we'll need to pay overs to get him but a first rounder for a player who has been in the system for 5 years for 20 odd games and a reputation for lacking intensity is too high risk. I appreciate our need in this area and there are limited options available but I feel Sam has more collateral with a first rounder on the table and, by moving out JJ and Wally, which I totally agree with, will have some spare cap to make a tasty offer elsewhere. Whether that is for a ruckman or KPD remains to be seen.

                        I honestly think our approach to the ruck role moving forward will be to use gap fillers until English is ready. I think we're already liking what we see and see him as a ruck forward rather than the other way around. We've put so much time into him and been so patient it just looks like the way it's going to go.

                        He is getting better, slowly and the his strong points are very good and his ceiling is very high.
                        But then again, I'm an Internet poster and Bevo is a premiership coach so draw your own conclusions.

                        Comment

                        • Ghost Dog
                          WOOF Member
                          • May 2010
                          • 9404

                          #13
                          Re: The 2021 & 2022 Aggressive Trade Scenario

                          Originally posted by Scraggers
                          As usual, great work BT. I truly appreciate your contribution to WOOF especially your draft scenarios.

                          Whilst I love the romance of Lipinski (Bulldog supporter watching the 2016 GF one year, playing for the Bulldogs the next) I do see the value he offers us and his chance of getting a better run at another club.

                          However, I have a lot of difficulty getting my head around trading out our only Norm Smith winner (JJ) and a father/son and current vice captain (Wally). This is my issue, but again goes to the romantic notions of football and not the business of football. We have an abundance of running half back flankers. One or two have to go. But do we risk losing a Caleb Daniel or an Ed Richards to keep the romance in footy (JJ and Wally staying) … so I get it, but I’m not happy we have to do it. Would a Jordon Sweet trade bring the same as a Wally or a JJ? If we are looking at bringing in an established ruck, the Sweet moves back another rung doesn’t he?

                          Another player to throw into the conversation is Bailey Smith. I love what he brings to the club (particularly his Instagram followers) but with a fit Dunkley and Treloar, does he go down a rung or two?

                          Like yourself BT, this is looking at the draft with an aggressive eye. Is there a passive approach where we get to keep the names and still have the points to get Darcy and Raak?
                          Like others, thanks very much BT. Such a detailed, professional overview. Such good reading.

                          I've been a big backer of Mitch Wallis but am ready to concede. I don't think he can help us if he can't stand up when needed.
                          And when you mention how much JJ is on, it doesn't make it sting so much.
                          Losing him gives us lots of options.

                          Bailey Smith hasn't looked as good this year as last year, worth thinking about.
                          You don't develop courage by being happy in your relationships every day. You develop it by surviving difficult times and challenging adversity. ― Epicurus

                          Comment

                          • Bulldog4life
                            WOOF Member
                            • Oct 2007
                            • 9607

                            #14
                            Re: The 2021 & 2022 Aggressive Trade Scenario

                            I like Ed Richards and hope he signs again with us. Maybe Collingwood would like another Richards running around with them. If so a straight swap with Lynch. Both similar age and he is an extremely promising ruckman. He'll be waiting a long time for Grundy to retire.

                            Comment

                            • bulldogtragic
                              The List Manager
                              • Jan 2007
                              • 34289

                              #15
                              Re: The 2021 & 2022 Aggressive Trade Scenario

                              Originally posted by 1eyedog
                              Thanks BT next level as always. I'm a little concerned about our first going to Port for Ladhams. As you've said he's not being played and if we're in his ear with opportunity and slightly more coin and he nominates us we are in a strong position to potentially negotiate a sweeter deal more weighted in our favour.

                              I understand we'll need to pay overs to get him but a first rounder for a player who has been in the system for 5 years for 20 odd games and a reputation for lacking intensity is too high risk. I appreciate our need in this area and there are limited options available but I feel Sam has more collateral with a first rounder on the table and, by moving out JJ and Wally, which I totally agree with, will have some spare cap to make a tasty offer elsewhere. Whether that is for a ruckman or KPD remains to be seen.

                              I honestly think our approach to the ruck role moving forward will be to use gap fillers until English is ready. I think we're already liking what we see and see him as a ruck forward rather than the other way around. We've put so much time into him and been so patient it just looks like the way it's going to go.

                              He is getting better, slowly and the his strong points are very good and his ceiling is very high.
                              Originally posted by Bulldog4life
                              I like Ed Richards and hope he signs again with us. Maybe Collingwood would like another Richards running around with them. If so a straight swap with Lynch. Both similar age and he is an extremely promising ruckman. He'll be waiting a long time for Grundy to retire.
                              Both replies highlight my caveat of the OP that the player names were indicative to make the post easier to read. If we were comfortable with the strategy, then we can simply exchange the player names in and out of the strategy. Ladhams out, or Lynch in. If we have picks and cash while securing Darcy, another player too good to refuse might come along (ie Treloar last year). If good player/s request a trade then that opens more up. If we are not prepared to find draft points through probably four trades, then we need to scale back ambitions of what we could do this year. I’m in the mind to do that and take a sizeable deficit and secure Darcy and improve the list significantly for next year through trade in our window. Whom ever those players are.
                              Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

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