Development of Tall players in the VFL - why do they take so Long?

[comrade]

Re: Development of Tall players in the VFL - why do they take so Long?

One man & one man only for the job, the great C. Grant.

Good call.

Get it done Rocket.

[mighty_west]

Re: Development of Tall players in the VFL - why do they take so Long?

Good call.

Get it done Rocket.

Yep, very good call by JH40, he could not only help Grant out, but Boumann, Jones, Everitt, Cordy etc etc, i mean heck, Granty did play just about everywhere on the ground.

[lemmon]

Re: Development of Tall players in the VFL - why do they take so Long?

Is he interested in coaching though?

[Mofra]

Re: Development of Tall players in the VFL - why do they take so Long?

With Grant, I think he could really benefit from some one on one, personal training with a guy who has been a successful forward at the highest level. Im fairly sure Dermie Brerton has done some work down at Punt Rd specifically with Jack Riewoldt and his recent performance have been great. Could this type of specialised training be an option and benefit Jarrad?

Grant physically is 20 going on 17. He needs a decent pre-season or two to build up a fitness base & some strength - he leads to the right spots (when he does lead) and has super-sticky hands.

[Bornadog]

Re: Development of Tall players in the VFL - why do they take so Long?

I'm a little worried with Everitt. He's not tall enough to be a KPP, and so for his size, he's not quick enough either. .

Given he is 193 cm, does that mean you think Grant (192cm) is also not a KPP?

[LostDoggy]

Re: Development of Tall players in the VFL - why do they take so Long?

Yep, very good call by JH40, he could not only help Grant out, but Boumann, Jones, Everitt, Cordy etc etc, i mean heck, Granty did play just about everywhere on the ground.

And was still able to play 300+ games, shows how much of a champion he was.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Development of Tall players in the VFL - why do they take so Long?

Given he is 193 cm, does that mean you think Grant (192cm) is also not a KPP?

I think Grant will need adequate support to be effective, but he at least plays tall. He's taking big contested marks each week at VFL level and was good in this area v Essendon in the pre-season too.

Even though Everitt is 1cm taller, I don't think he plays like it. Perhaps I should have worded it differently. I suppose the question on Grant remains, but I am confident he has the smarts/leap and most importantly the hands to play as a KPF. Not sure if he can be the #1 guy though. He'll need Jones, Cordy or alike to play alongside IMO.

Everitt seems to rely more so on his run/carry and delivery of the ball.

[Mofra]

Re: Development of Tall players in the VFL - why do they take so Long?

Not sure if he can be the #1 guy though. He'll need Jones, Cordy or alike to play alongside IMO.

One of the factors mentioned in an article a while back is that at draft camp Grant was pretty adament he wanted to be the no 1 forward at an AFL team, whilst another potential target (Lachie Henderson) just wanted to be a contributer.

Fev is shorter and is a no 1 target so it can be done if a player has marking ability & is good with the body on body work (obviously Grant will take time). This is where Everitt is really let down - his body work is poor and would get flogged at AFL level unless this area improves. Grant knows what he is doing and is only really let down by physical maturity.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Development of Tall players in the VFL - why do they take so Long?

One of the factors mentioned in an article a while back is that at draft camp Grant was pretty adament he wanted to be the no 1 forward at an AFL team, whilst another potential target (Lachie Henderson) just wanted to be a contributer.

Fev is shorter and is a no 1 target so it can be done if a player has marking ability & is good with the body on body work (obviously Grant will take time). This is where Everitt is really let down - his body work is poor and would get flogged at AFL level unless this area improves. Grant knows what he is doing and is only really let down by physical maturity.

I agree and I am pretty confident Grant is going to be a very good player for us. He's got all the attributes, he just needs time to develop. Certainly this is a huge positive for the club as we've had a number of talls either borderline or look as though they'll never make it. Grant's quite the opposite.

I still think he'll need support though, purely on the way the game is changing with the zones etc. Fevola hasn't been able to play well against the better sides this season and I am not so sure it's coincidence. They are taking away his space and continully out numbering him. The better sides can do this (especially against Carlton) because there's no other match winning/influencing forward. Franklin/Roughead have had indifferent years but we've still seen a number of times this year (and lately, against good sides) that it's very difficult to keep two of them down. Ditto Riewoldt/Kosi, Brown/Bradshaw.

If we can develop a second foil to Grant, he'll be a much better player IMO.

[Mofra]

Re: Development of Tall players in the VFL - why do they take so Long?

If we can develop a second foil to Grant, he'll be a much better player IMO.

Definately - the better KPP forwards tend to work in combo anyway (ie Riewoldt & Kosi, Buddy & Roughy, Brown & Bradshaw, Dunstall & Brereton etc).

With Cordy to possibly rotate forward (I like his efforts accross the HF line this year) with Will in a couple of years, and possibly Boumann* therabouts, we should be able to eek out some form of forwardline structure that eludes us at the moment.

This is leaving out Jones who I haven't seen in the flesh & any draftee we pick up in the next 2-3 years

* Just on bodywork, Boumann looks a natural at it. The games I've seen at Willy, his position just looks right - goalside of his opponent whenever the ball gets into our backline. Just one of the little things I was impressed with, as well as his sheer pace.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Development of Tall players in the VFL - why do they take so Long?

I agree and I am pretty confident Grant is going to be a very good player for us. He's got all the attributes, he just needs time to develop. Certainly this is a huge positive for the club as we've had a number of talls either borderline or look as though they'll never make it. Grant's quite the opposite.

I still think he'll need support though, purely on the way the game is changing with the zones etc. Fevola hasn't been able to play well against the better sides this season and I am not so sure it's coincidence. They are taking away his space and continully out numbering him. The better sides can do this (especially against Carlton) because there's no other match winning/influencing forward. Franklin/Roughead have had indifferent years but we've still seen a number of times this year (and lately, against good sides) that it's very difficult to keep two of them down. Ditto Riewoldt/Kosi, Brown/Bradshaw.

If we can develop a second foil to Grant, he'll be a much better player IMO.

I'm not sure if you have seen many Williamstown games this year but i'm going to have to disagree with you. Sure the guy has sticky fingers and has pace BUT!! it's all the other things that concern me. Fitness, urgency, second efforts, attitude and just his general body language. The jury is still out with me, though on that note I would love him to prove me wrong! I have seen a fair bit of him this year and are still scratching my head over all the hype. He needs a huge pre season as others do and come out firing on all cylinders next year.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Development of Tall players in the VFL - why do they take so Long?

I'm not sure if you have seen many Williamstown games this year but i'm going to have to disagree with you. Sure the guy has sticky fingers and has pace BUT!! it's all the other things that concern me. Fitness, urgency, second efforts, attitude and just his general body language. The jury is still out with me, though on that note I would love him to prove me wrong! I have seen a fair bit of him this year and are still scratching my head over all the hype. He needs a huge pre season as others do and come out firing on all cylinders next year.

Put fitness and second efforts down to the fact that he's only still very young. He's hardly had time to develop with his set-back last year and as Rocket has explained, he's coming from a long way back. He didn't play a lot of TAC Cup footy, he was mainly playing school boy football. It's going to take him a little longer than most to develop and so it's only natural he's going to look ordinary at times. He's behind in strength, fitness and perhaps confidence - all three of which will help turn around his urgency, second efforts and attitude.

Murphy isn't exactly exploding with urgency either. Some players body language is different. Josh Hill is another example. It doesn't mean they can't play though.

Grant's shown key tools to suggest he's going to make it. Very sticky hands - he can mark on the lead or in a pack, plenty of pace, great at ground level and he has shown an ability to apply defensive pressure. His consistency isn't always there, but I think that's due to what I explained up above.

[Desipura]

Re: Development of Tall players in the VFL - why do they take so Long?

I'm not sure if you have seen many Williamstown games this year but i'm going to have to disagree with you. Sure the guy has sticky fingers and has pace BUT!! it's all the other things that concern me. Fitness, urgency, second efforts, attitude and just his general body language. The jury is still out with me, though on that note I would love him to prove me wrong! I have seen a fair bit of him this year and are still scratching my head over all the hype. He needs a huge pre season as others do and come out firing on all cylinders next year.

His second efforts in his 2 games (ran down Courtney Dempsey from behind in the Black Saturday game) and a bloke named Judd in his only senior game tell me he is ok in this area. I agree about his fitness not being there yet. Body language is debatable, Mark Waugh did not have the best body language either, he turned out ok.

[Bornadog]

Re: Development of Tall players in the VFL - why do they take so Long?

His second efforts in his 2 games (ran down Courtney Dempsey from behind in the Black Saturday game) and a bloke named Judd in his only senior game tell me he is ok in this area. I agree about his fitness not being there yet. Body language is debateble, Mark Waugh did not have the best body language either, he turned out ok.

Maybe we are reading the body language incorrectly. I notice that after he has chased players he is a little stuffed, so his body language maybe looks bad because he is exhausted and he needs to take a breath.

I think he needs a good preseason, no injuries, some strength and he will be very good.

[Mofra]

Re: Development of Tall players in the VFL - why do they take so Long?

I'm not sure if you have seen many Williamstown games this year but i'm going to have to disagree with you. Sure the guy has sticky fingers and has pace BUT!! it's all the other things that concern me. Fitness, urgency, second efforts, attitude and just his general body language.

I think fitness is where he is really behind - he was a rake when he came to us and played only a few games the year before being drafted, then his first season was ruined by OP. He is realistically close to 2 years of development behind the group he was drafted with, yet still manages to kick goals in the VFL seniors.
He'll take longer but seeing the pressure he puts on himself in games to me shows he is keen to work hard & improve. Definately needs a big pre-season though.