The Western Bulldogs are targeting two Essendon key forwards

[1eyedog]

Re: The Western Bulldogs are targeting two Essendon key forwards

Why do we get trumped? We've got really early picks and a salary cap almost at the minimum required, yet we give up hope before we even start.

Trading in fringe types to be role players or to fill gaps in a team looking to challenge for a flag is fine. What is ridiculous is trading late picks for fringe types to play key roles. It's never worked and never will.

I don't mind Gumby as a player, he's a good ordinary player, but we're in a position at the moment to really bring in a gun and settling for the surplus to needs players at other clubs is the soft option.

Partly because we are an unfashionable club and the really high profile players get preferred options from the big clubs and partly because you are right, we do not go hard enough at those high profile players due to salary cap pressures and a reluctance to do so at management level. What key forwards would you target that are available / or could be convinced to come over if the coin is right? What player should we be targeting? All I've heard about it Gumbleton, Crameri and Boyd on this forum.

Rawlings: number one KPF target getting the best defender at Hawthorn kicked 35 goals in 2003
McDougall: 35 goals in 20 games in 2004
Cook: 35 goals in 22 games in 1994/5

Gumby: 7 years, 44 goals in 32 games.


Yeah, much better than what we've been trading for. INSANITY.

To be fair he has had zero continuity and when he was fit struggled for a place against Lucas and Lloyd between 2007-2009.

[1eyedog]

Re: The Western Bulldogs are targeting two Essendon key forwards

What's "much" for him?

IMO we should make more of the AFL rules which have been used against us ie get Gumby for nix via the PSD

They'll want an early 2nd rounder.

[GVGjr]

Re: The Western Bulldogs are targeting two Essendon key forwards

They'll want an early 2nd rounder.

Which is too much for him.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: The Western Bulldogs are targeting two Essendon key forwards

They'll want an early 2nd rounder.

Even more reason to hate them. It's all moot anyway, Bellchambers, Crameri and Gumby all took AOD.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: The Western Bulldogs are targeting two Essendon key forwards

Which is too much for him.

Yep - worth a laugh and nothing more.

I'd try and convince Gumby to take the PSD route, or offer Essendon a fourth round pick. Let's be honest -- they aren't going to be playing Gumby when they've got Hurley/Carlisle, Crameri and Daniher all ahead of him. If Gumby can be convinced to leave for more opportunity, it should be within Essendon's best intentions to provide him with that.

If not and they play difficult, let's move on.

[Greystache]

Re: The Western Bulldogs are targeting two Essendon key forwards

Partly because we are an unfashionable club and the really high profile players get preferred options from the big clubs and partly because you are right, we do not go hard enough at those high profile players due to salary cap pressures and a reluctance to do so at management level. What key forwards would you target that are available / or could be convinced to come over if the coin is right? What player should we be targeting? All I've heard about it Gumbleton, Crameri and Boyd on this forum.

It's not a great year in terms of available forwards, J Riewoldt being the biggest name and Crameri the best of the mid range which are both worth a try for. Riewoldt would at least bring some attention and excitement to a club desperately needing it. Otherwise I would go for Boyd.

We should have have had a huge crack at Roughead when he was getting dicked around by the hawks or Walker when he was behind Tippett.

It doesn't have to be a forward, there's no reason we can't throw a big offer at a midfielder with good skills.

[LostDoggy]

Re: The Western Bulldogs are targeting two Essendon key forwards

Sure. Einstein once said "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results".

So lets look at recent history as a Precursor of the clubs current trajectory.

Growing our own: Grgic, Sexton, Ballantyne, Hargreaves, Bowden, David Round, Wiggins, Aaron James, Saunders, Timmy Walsh, Wight, Everitt, Tiller, Wells etc.

Trading in: Cook, Jakovich, Trent Bartlett (ok, I love the ugg), Jade Rawlings, McDougall, etc.


So reverse engineering Einsteins statement, if we keep doing things as we have it is INSANITY!!!

Trading for dud forwards and trying to grow our own, predominantly from mid range draft because we need mids, has been an epic failure. Gumby would etch his name is a proud history of failed KPF at the WBFC. Taking a mid at pick 3 would be safe and trying to take a speculative tall hasn't worked for us either.

We would be walking down the same path and with years more without premiership success, we can come back to this thread and rejoice in the fact we were too weak to have the balls to forge our own destiny. But as membership continues to plummet, it ma not be WOOF anymore, perhaps ASOF... Aurora Stadium Online Forum.

INSANITY according to the worlds most intelligent ever person.

It's incredibly easy for you to sit behind the fence (or keyboard) and squeal about how shit we are, but what would you do to fix it? How would you alleviate the issues:

• High-profile players don't want to play for the Bulldogs, as they then become mid-profile players due to our club's position and lack of media profile
• Some players don't want to be the only bloke holding the team together each week. Abletts don't grow on trees.
• We don't have the sponsors and resources to just throw cash at these blokes. You'll never see an Environmental Ambassador for any of the Bulldogs sponsors
• We look like spending the next few years rebuilding, so if you're a top-class forward, why would you leave a team headed for finals?
• Nobody knows how each draft is going to pan out. Some work, some don't. Throwing up draft shortcomings from many, many years ago doesn't really add to a meaningful discussion. I mean, Tom Boyd could be the next Wayne Carey or he could be the next Tim Walsh. Life isn't certain.

I respect your frustration, as I feel it too, but just sitting there shouting INSANITY isn't very constructive. I don't see the club saying, “We're too scared of going after this bloke” they're just being realistic. If you want to see that as “not having the balls to forge our own destiny” that's OK, each to their own. Keep living in the disillusioned, success-starved fan's dreamland where blokes like Lance Franklin want to play in the red, white and blue and earn less money, whilst shouldering ten times the responsibility.

If we want to grab Gumbleton to give Jones some space to develop, and to allow us to grow our own KPF through the draft, then I'm cool with that. Nobody is suggesting we're going to trade our best player or our first round pick for him. I don't think we'll part with our 2nd round pick when we can make him go through the PSD. Essendon are notorious for being bastards at trade week, but we have the lion's share of bargaining power here.

Here endeth the rant.

[chef]

Re: The Western Bulldogs are targeting two Essendon key forwards

No way in hell Crameri's going anywhere IMO.

Gumby on the other hand would be handy, if we can get him to go in the PSD(or pick him up as a delisted FA) or trade no more than a 3rd round pick for him.

[G-Mo77]

Re: The Western Bulldogs are targeting two Essendon key forwards

Gumby on the other hand would be handy, if we can get him to go in the PSD(or pick him up as a delisted FA) or trade no more than a 3rd round pick for him.

I had a feeling Crameri was not our key target there. My theory was to make the Bombers pay for Crameri and let Gumby fall through the cracks. We're still going to have to pay around $300K and pry him away from the Bombres. I was dead against Gumby when the rumours surfaced in the off-season but I warmed to adding him and I think he'll be worth it.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: The Western Bulldogs are targeting two Essendon key forwards

It's incredibly easy for you to sit behind the fence (or keyboard) and squeal about how shit we are, but what would you do to fix it? How would you alleviate the issues:

• High-profile players don't want to play for the Bulldogs, as they then become mid-profile players due to our club's position and lack of media profile
• Some players don't want to be the only bloke holding the team together each week. Abletts don't grow on trees.
• We don't have the sponsors and resources to just throw cash at these blokes. You'll never see an Environmental Ambassador for any of the Bulldogs sponsors
• We look like spending the next few years rebuilding, so if you're a top-class forward, why would you leave a team headed for finals?
• Nobody knows how each draft is going to pan out. Some work, some don't. Throwing up draft shortcomings from many, many years ago doesn't really add to a meaningful discussion. I mean, Tom Boyd could be the next Wayne Carey or he could be the next Tim Walsh. Life isn't certain.

I respect your frustration, as I feel it too, but just sitting there shouting INSANITY isn't very constructive. I don't see the club saying, “We're too scared of going after this bloke” they're just being realistic. If you want to see that as “not having the balls to forge our own destiny” that's OK, each to their own. Keep living in the disillusioned, success-starved fan's dreamland where blokes like Lance Franklin want to play in the red, white and blue and earn less money, whilst shouldering ten times the responsibility.

If we want to grab Gumbleton to give Jones some space to develop, and to allow us to grow our own KPF through the draft, then I'm cool with that. Nobody is suggesting we're going to trade our best player or our first round pick for him. I don't think we'll part with our 2nd round pick when we can make him go through the PSD. Essendon are notorious for being bastards at trade week, but we have the lion's share of bargaining power here.

Here endeth the rant.

Quite a rant, good effort. But you've gone off on a tangent with regard to my comments.

I'm not saying we're shit. If that's the inference you draw, so be it. I'm saying that continuing on with business as usual and expecting things to change is fanciful, an by definition insanity. I laid out 20 years of history of drafting and trading for talls, I don't think the club can state it's proud of its record.

I'm not saying Addison and a fourth rounder for Buddy, despite the assertion. I'm saying life is a risk and most here don't want to take one. Gumby will not change our fortunes. Continually looking at tall project players mid draft are far less likely to change things. I for one advocate that the club needs to be "all in" when it comes to getting Boyd. I'm not saying give everything away, but to just say no and stick with our history of drafting/trading talls is a far bigger risk.

If we continue on as usual, then membership, sponsorship and attendances will be down. I for one would feel like Gumby and "best available" would be Groundhog Day. I think landing Boyd would be a monumental boom for the club. You can build a team, club and marketing campaign around him. I will be a member until the day I die, but the sense of excitement I would have would be off the scale.

As I've said a heap on here, it's risk/reward. You want the spoils, then as Sean Connery said in the untouchables, "what are you prepared to do.".

[1eyedog]

Re: The Western Bulldogs are targeting two Essendon key forwards

It's not a great year in terms of available forwards, J Riewoldt being the biggest name and Crameri the best of the mid range which are both worth a try for. Riewoldt would at least bring some attention and excitement to a club desperately needing it. Otherwise I would go for Boyd.

We should have have had a huge crack at Roughead when he was getting dicked around by the hawks or Walker when he was behind Tippett.

It doesn't have to be a forward, there's no reason we can't throw a big offer at a midfielder with good skills.

Do you really think we can get J. Riewoldt over from Richmond? I don't, Crameri either IMO. They want Premierships and would knock back a larger sum of money to win one.

It's Gumby or the draft, or both. I 100% agree on spending big on an outside mid with elite disposal.

[Remi Moses]

Re: The Western Bulldogs are targeting two Essendon key forwards

I'm on the side of not at a price lower than a third rounder.
1) he's not getting a game
2) he's not great below his knees, and lets be frank the way we deliver it in he's in trouble.
3) dealing with the Bombres is like negotiating with the Taliban.
4) injury history is on a par with Williams

[G-Mo77]

Re: The Western Bulldogs are targeting two Essendon key forwards

I'm on the side of not at a price lower than a third rounder.
1) he's not getting a game
2) he's not great below his knees, and lets be frank the way we deliver it in he's in trouble.
3) dealing with the Bombres is like negotiating with the Taliban.
4) injury history is on a par with Williams

I was wondering who always referred to Essendon as the Taliban.

Completely agree with that and when you look at where the pick will be placed it'll be a high 3rd round pick. That's plenty IMO.

[Remi Moses]

Re: The Western Bulldogs are targeting two Essendon key forwards

Quite a rant, good effort. But you've gone off on a tangent with regard to my comments.

I'm not saying we're shit. If that's the inference you draw, so be it. I'm saying that continuing on with business as usual and expecting things to change is fanciful, an by definition insanity. I laid out 20 years of history of drafting and trading for talls, I don't think the club can state it's proud of its record.

I'm not saying Addison and a fourth rounder for Buddy, despite the assertion. I'm saying life is a risk and most here don't want to take one. Gumby will not change our fortunes. Continually looking at tall project players mid draft are far less likely to change things. I for one advocate that the club needs to be "all in" when it comes to getting Boyd. I'm not saying give everything away, but to just say no and stick with our history of drafting/trading talls is a far bigger risk.

If we continue on as usual, then membership, sponsorship and attendances will be down. I for one would feel like Gumby and "best available" would be Groundhog Day. I think landing Boyd would be a monumental boom for the club. You can build a team, club and marketing campaign around him. I will be a member until the day I die, but the sense of excitement I would have would be off the scale.

As I've said a heap on here, it's risk/reward. You want the spoils, then as Sean Connery said in the untouchables, "what are you prepared to do.".

I feel your pain and I agree. Just watching the under 18's why don't we just draft our own players.

[FrediKanoute]

Re: The Western Bulldogs are targeting two Essendon key forwards

I'm on the side of not at a price lower than a third rounder.
1) he's not getting a game
2) he's not great below his knees, and lets be frank the way we deliver it in he's in trouble.
3) dealing with the Bombres is like negotiating with the Taliban.
4) injury history is on a par with Williams

I also think that we need to be careful dealing with Essendon given the performance enhancing drugs issue. Just our luck that we would trade for Crameri/Gumby and find them banned for 2 years for taking a prohibited substance!