Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

[Twodogs]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

Yes, George Sayer might have been what would be referred to today as a 'colourful racing identity'! From a strongly biased FFC corner viewpoint, what I've heard about Sayer is that he was into a fair bit of off-track gambling, underground casinos, black lotteries etc.. But he loved the FFC. I think it was in the aftermath of the 1922 GF (where Port beat us narrowly) that some Port players alleged they were offered money to lie down.... Nothing was proven, but the episode resulted in a lot of bad blood between Us and Port. The following year, we met and beat Port in the GF. They went the knuckle, by all accounts.

Port were a notoriously rough mob, so the bribery accusations could've been taken with a grain of salt. However the word was out and Sayer's reputation was damaged. In 1924, Sayer and the club were flying. We built a DOMINANT team. We demolished Willy in the GF and were so dominant that the newspapers pushed for a matchup between the rampant FFC and the VFL Premier - whoever that might be.

That was something the VFL had always resisted, however when the über-pop star of the day, Dame Nellie Melba was brought in and a benefit for our wounded WW1 soldiers was mooted, any resistance to a match would've been a PR nightmare! The game was on!

Of all our 9 flag sides, the '24 side is/was considered the best. Often forgotten was that in '24, the VFL didn't have a GF. They had a pissy round robin concept where Essendon were crowned premiers despite being touched up by (I think) Richmond in the last game of the year. (tinny pricks!)

So the result was that the clear, dominant VFA premiers were playing what was potentially not even the best side from the VFL.. The result of the game was FFC flogging Essendon. Too quick, too fit, too good! As the VFA allowed flick-passing and the VFL didn't, that was initially used as an excuse.. Then the excuse that Essendon weren't completely 'up for it' was used.. That excuse seems completely lame, as Eesendon's legitimacy as premiers had been questioned. They had plenty to prove. Plenty resting on the game!

Once that excuse was brushed aside, much later, claims of Essendon players being bribed by Sayer were made. To me, that sounds like desperation to save face by either Essendon or the VFL. It seems convenient that the old Port accusation was resurrected as excuse number 3 for Essendon's humiliating defeat... In any case, Sayer was into a lot more 'shennanigans' than that. Either as an effort to legitimise the accusation, or because they were simply hoity-toity, holier than thou pricks, the League refused to allow Sayer to remain president once they had us in their fold.

There was talk that Essendon also 'threw' that last game against Richmond too. After all they couldn't lose the premiership.


It's long been my opinion that George Sayers deserves a book written about him, I'd love to write it but I don't have the experience to do the research or write it. It's a crying shame that the Buckingham no longer exists because it would have been the perfect venue for the book launch-Sayers was the publican there for many years.

[Webby]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

There was talk that Essendon also 'threw' that last game against Richmond too. After all they couldn't lose the premiership.


It's long been my opinion that George Sayers deserves a book written about him, I'd love to write it but I don't have the experience to do the research or write it. It's a crying shame that the Buckingham no longer exists because it would have been the perfect venue for the book launch-Sayers was the publican there for many years.

I didn't know that. I used to go to the Buck quite a bit. It shut about 2-3 years ago, from memory. It popped up in the ABC series "The Slap" a year or two ago - just after it shut. You know we held the record for most VFA premierships right up until the 60's or 70's or so, when Port finally surpassed us... That could be a goal to set ourselves... Reclaiming our 'title'

[Missing-Dog]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

Typical Essendon.
Even obnoxious back then!!
I think Port Melbourne were dirty that Stkilda were admitted instead of themselves.
Geesh, even Albert Park were more successful than Stkilda

Apparently some University supporters still hold a grudge against St. Kilda

[LostDoggy]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

Thanks for all of this, guys, a lot of history that I — and I dare say most of today's Bulldogs fans — have little to no idea of.

[Greystache]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

The VFL was definitely a stronger all over competition. However it needs to be remembered that the disparity between AFL and the lower levels that exists today did not exist in years gone by. Some of the best players in the country could earn quadruple the money by captain/coaching a country club, let alone playing VFA. Bob Pratt and Laurie Nash (the Wayne Carey and Tony Lockett of their day) both simultaneously played VFA rather than VFL. Unthinkable today. Frank Johnson from Port Melbourne earned more money than 99% of VFL players and made All-Australian selection from the VFA.

The VFL was stronger than the SANFL and WAFL, for example, but this didn't necessarily mean that a dominant Port Adelaide premiership side wasn't stronger than a VFL premier in any given year. And dominant clubs in lower leagues tend to be more attractive to players than also-ran clubs at the higher level.

Due to Essendon jealously blocking western and northwestern suburbs involvement in the VFL, Footscray, North, Willy, West Melbourne, Port Melbourne, Brunswick and even Essendon Association formed a buzzing belt of VFA footy. Big success, big crowds and a burgeoning little scene between them. Those clubs dominated and Footscray was the pick of them. No zoning restrictions and Footscray, as a dominant, well run club, attracted good players - from wherever we wanted.. We were very strong and extremely well respected.

Think about this, the NW & western suburbs clubs I mentioned above won 23 of the 25 VFA premierships contested in the years between the VFL's formation and Footscray joining the VFL..! The only VFA premier not from the west - Richmond - were admitted to the VFL after winning 2 VFA flags. (We won 9..!)

Richmond, after not long in the VFL, became a dominant club. On the day we joined the VFL, Richmond had actually finished first or runners up in 4 of the 5 previous seasons... They were actually considered the best club in the league!

VFL clubs were careful that another up-start Richmond-type club wouldn't follow! It was a condition of joining the VFL that we had to agree to a VERY restrictive player zone. Our VFL sides of the late 1920's were actually a lot weaker than our VFA sides of the early 1920's.

Where we used to freely draw players from a wide radius of the Western Oval, suddenly Seddon and anywhere south of it was untouchable. North of the Maribyrnong also became *!a no-no! Where we used to be able to lure VFL players from wherever we wanted, suddenly we weren't allowed to. It made life pretty tough. The club also lost its pulling power as it became an also-ran club.

If only we were kissed on the proverbial in the way that GWS and the Suns have been! There wasn't much help in the 1920's! But have no doubt, we were a powerful, well respected club in a bloody good league pre-1925.

Just noticed this thread. No to put a dampener on things but there's a bit of re-writing history here.

Richmond in the 7 years before they were admitted to the VFL had been top 2 every season winning 2 premierships and boycotting another Grand Final. Footscray were in and out of the finals (or top 4 in the years without finals) during that time and didn't win a premiership until Richmond left. Richmond took longer to become a strong club but once they got there they dominated the VFA.

Similarly in the 10 years before the foundation clubs formed the VFL, Footscray only finished above 8th once (4th along with 3 other teams in 1894), and weren't able to compete with the bigger clubs.

I've got no problem with people celebrating our success from that period, but the harsh reality is when the better teams were in the league we were a middle of the road club.

[Twodogs]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

Just noticed this thread. No to put a dampener on things but there's a bit of re-writing history here.

Richmond in the 7 years before they were admitted to the VFL had been top 2 every season winning 2 premierships and boycotting another Grand Final. Footscray were in and out of the finals (or top 4 in the years without finals) during that time and didn't win a premiership until Richmond left. Richmond took longer to become a strong club but once they got there they dominated the VFA.

In the decade before 1907 we had won 3 premierships to Richmond's 2. we had as been runners up once (in 1906) We also had a better head to head record with them (played 49 won 24, lost 22 with 3 drawn.)

They might have done well in the VFA but we had a better record.

I'd like to delve further into the record but I have to go and work. I will get back to it later tonight or tomorrow.

[Greystache]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

In the decade before 1907 we had won 3 premierships to Richmond's 2. we had as been runners up once (in 1906) We also had a better head to head record with them (played 49 won 24, lost 22 with 3 drawn.)

They might have done well in the VFA but we had a better record.

I'd like to delve further into the record but I have to go and work. I will get back to it later tonight or tomorrow.

Correct, after the VFL foundation clubs left the VFA we won the next 3 consecutive premierships, we'd only finished above 8th once before that. Following that 1898-1900 period Richmond became the dominant club finishing top 2 for the next 7 seasons, winning 2 premierships and losing 2 Grand Finals. Footscray in that time only played in one Grand Final losing to West Melbourne in 1906.

Respective records for that period were;

Footscray 72 wins 48 losses- winning percentage 60%
Richmond- 100 wins 21 losses- winning percentage 83%

When Richmond left to join the VFL at the end of 1907 Footscray won the VFA premiership the following year.

[Murphy'sLore]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

Thanks guys for posting all this, brilliant stuff and I've really enjoyed the read.

[Twodogs]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

Correct, after the VFL foundation clubs left the VFA we won the next 3 consecutive premierships, we'd only finished above 8th once before that. Following that 1898-1900 period Richmond became the dominant club finishing top 2 for the next 7 seasons, winning 2 premierships and losing 2 Grand Finals. Footscray in that time only played in one Grand Final losing to West Melbourne in 1906.

Respective records for that period were;

Footscray 72 wins 48 losses- winning percentage 60%
Richmond- 100 wins 21 losses- winning percentage 83%

When Richmond left to join the VFL at the end of 1907 Footscray won the VFA premiership the following year.

Did both clubs join the VFA the same year?

[Greystache]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

Did both clubs join the VFA the same year?

Looks to like Richmond joined the year before, 1885

[Webby]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

Correct, after the VFL foundation clubs left the VFA we won the next 3 consecutive premierships, we'd only finished above 8th once before that. Following that 1898-1900 period Richmond became the dominant club finishing top 2 for the next 7 seasons, winning 2 premierships and losing 2 Grand Finals. Footscray in that time only played in one Grand Final losing to West Melbourne in 1906.

When Richmond left to join the VFL at the end of 1907 Footscray won the VFA premiership the following year.

We did win 3 in a row, but Port Melbourne (who were the most aggrieved not to have been admitted into the newly formed VFL) actually won the first VFA flag after the breakaway.

Another interesting consideration is that Collingwood were ushered into the new league after they came from nowhere as a club and developed to a point where they won the 1896 VFA flag - thus booking their ticket into the new VFL. I've often wondered if we weren't just 2-3 years too late. Also, Port book ended our 3 flags before Richmond won their first.

Had we been admitted with Richmond in 1908, we might have done great things either side of WW1. One other consideration is cricket. Back in those days, the quality of the stadium was largely reliant on the strength of the cricket club. Thus the reason St Kilda (a joke of a football club, but a powerful cricket club with the beautiful Junction Oval) were admitted. The other clubs liked their ground!

A strong cricket club generally meant a good quality oval. Carlton, East Melbourne, Essendon, Fitzroy, Melbourne, North Melbourne, Richmond, St Kilda, South Melbourne, and University were the premier cricket clubs. Collingwood CC actually formed out of the football club. As I say, Collingwood were an anomaly!

Footscray were obviously missing from that list. Essendon also chose to play at East Melbourne's cricket ground rather than Essendon's.

So anyway, point is that Richmond had a nice oval which was close to all other grounds. They were therefore a more attractive option than us. They were successful and politically savvy. And by the time we joined them in 1925, they'd been the top VFL team for a few years.

[Greystache]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

We did win 3 in a row, but Port Melbourne (who were the most aggrieved not to have been admitted into the newly formed VFL) actually won the first VFA flag after the breakaway.

Good point Webby, 1897 was actually the first year of the VFL rather than the year those clubs left. Interesting point regarding cricket grounds and footy clubs, something I hadn't really thought about. It probably strengthens Port Melbourne's case for feeling snubbed given how nice their ground is and that it had a direct train link.

[Webby]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

Port have been notoriously filthy about Sht Kilda getting the gig above them for 100+ years. North too.. Truth is, though, that Port were their own worst enemies. They were a major cricket and football club in the 1800's but it was just a very, very rough area. Crowds were rowdy and so were the team. I think Port famously had a ban on any police playing for the club! For 80 odd years. Obviously a lot of wharfies and hard living blokes!

They also beat the piss out of Footscray in the 1923 grand final. In truth, Port were seen as more trouble than they were worth (rightly or wrongly). The 1976 VFA GF on YouTube is worth a look - as if proof were needed!

On Collingwood, they don't touch on it much, but pre 1892 when they formed as Collingwood, they were the Britannica Football Club. They wore red white and blue, too. When they applied to join the VFA, we told them "fine, but not in red, white and blue you won't!"

So they went away and grabbed the b&w stripes... They returned the favour in the 1990's with Port Adelaide, of course! When Collingwood won the 1896 VFA flag, it was only the second time in history they'd finished above us on the ladder! That's how meteoric their rise was..

They timed their rise well, because they went from nobodies in 1892 to premiers and members of the elite competition 5 years later. That's why I wonder how our triple premiership teams had arrived 3 years earlier, where it'd have landed us.

[Webby]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

The above is poorly written. Just realized.! And it's Britannia - not Britannica!
Apologies!

[Twodogs]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

I didn't notice until you pointed it out.