Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

[SonofScray]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

Take a bow Webby and Twodogs. Great post and discussion, I love this stuff.

We should acknowledge every aspect of our time as a Club and celebrate the achievements without fear or favour.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

Typical Essendon.
Even obnoxious back then!!
I think Port Melbourne were dirty that Stkilda were admitted instead of themselves.
Geesh, even Albert Park were more successful than Stkilda

[Eastdog]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

From reading about our early history we certainly were very successful pre VFL which is a shame that its forgotten because its a part of our clubs history.

[Twodogs]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

From reading about our early history we certainly were very successful pre VFL which is a shame that its forgotten because its a part of our clubs history.

Not by me!

The club has become much better at connecting with it's past now than I can ever remember it being. The museum is a very good work in progress and the story of the club written on the wall along the corridor of the players area is surisingly detaled.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

Not by me!

The club has become much better at connecting with it's past now than I can ever remember it being. The museum is a very good work in progress and the story of the club written on the wall along the corridor of the players area is surisingly detaled.

The introduction in recent years of our Hall of Fame has also been a great innovation by the Club. Those who made significant contributions called Pioneers prior to 1925 have been honored as has been our Champions since being admitted to the VFL in 1925. Club Historian, Darren Arthur and WB Executive Rachael Murphy have been keys to making this happen. Last year's B and F. ran a feature on our first finals appearance in 1938, including an interview with one of our outstanding players Jim Miller, who is now aged 94.
There is a lot to like in how the Club has developed in recent times.

[ratsmac]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

Thanks guys for posting. That was a good read. I agree that we need to promote our roots a little bit more. VFA premierships sound like they meant just as much as the VFL premierships back then. Was it like the boxing where you have different organisations? Or was it simply the the VFL was always the stronger competition? I think I hate Essendon a bit more after reading this too. They have always been organised cheats by the sound of things!

[Webby]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

Thanks guys for posting. That was a good read. I agree that we need to promote our roots a little bit more. VFA premierships sound like they meant just as much as the VFL premierships back then. Was it like the boxing where you have different organisations? Or was it simply the the VFL was always the stronger competition? I think I hate Essendon a bit more after reading this too. They have always been organised cheats by the sound of things!

The VFL was definitely a stronger all over competition. However it needs to be remembered that the disparity between AFL and the lower levels that exists today did not exist in years gone by. Some of the best players in the country could earn quadruple the money by captain/coaching a country club, let alone playing VFA. Bob Pratt and Laurie Nash (the Wayne Carey and Tony Lockett of their day) both simultaneously played VFA rather than VFL. Unthinkable today. Frank Johnson from Port Melbourne earned more money than 99% of VFL players and made All-Australian selection from the VFA.

The VFL was stronger than the SANFL and WAFL, for example, but this didn't necessarily mean that a dominant Port Adelaide premiership side wasn't stronger than a VFL premier in any given year. And dominant clubs in lower leagues tend to be more attractive to players than also-ran clubs at the higher level.

Due to Essendon jealously blocking western and northwestern suburbs involvement in the VFL, Footscray, North, Willy, West Melbourne, Port Melbourne, Brunswick and even Essendon Association formed a buzzing belt of VFA footy. Big success, big crowds and a burgeoning little scene between them. Those clubs dominated and Footscray was the pick of them. No zoning restrictions and Footscray, as a dominant, well run club, attracted good players - from wherever we wanted.. We were very strong and extremely well respected.

Think about this, the NW & western suburbs clubs I mentioned above won 23 of the 25 VFA premierships contested in the years between the VFL's formation and Footscray joining the VFL..! The only VFA premier not from the west - Richmond - were admitted to the VFL after winning 2 VFA flags. (We won 9..!)

Richmond, after not long in the VFL, became a dominant club. On the day we joined the VFL, Richmond had actually finished first or runners up in 4 of the 5 previous seasons... They were actually considered the best club in the league!

VFL clubs were careful that another up-start Richmond-type club wouldn't follow! It was a condition of joining the VFL that we had to agree to a VERY restrictive player zone. Our VFL sides of the late 1920's were actually a lot weaker than our VFA sides of the early 1920's.

Where we used to freely draw players from a wide radius of the Western Oval, suddenly Seddon and anywhere south of it was untouchable. North of the Maribyrnong also became *!a no-no! Where we used to be able to lure VFL players from wherever we wanted, suddenly we weren't allowed to. It made life pretty tough. The club also lost its pulling power as it became an also-ran club.

If only we were kissed on the proverbial in the way that GWS and the Suns have been! There wasn't much help in the 1920's! But have no doubt, we were a powerful, well respected club in a bloody good league pre-1925.

[Bornadog]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

Fantastic stuff Webby, enjoyed the read.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

Thanks Webby. I love this place. Where else can you have yarns like this.

[ratsmac]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

Thanks Webby. Your all over this.
Essendon are pure filth. History paints a clear picture of this.

[Raw Toast]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

Great thread TD and excellent contributions from Webby and NBP.

The introduction in recent years of our Hall of Fame has also been a great innovation by the Club. Those who made significant contributions called Pioneers prior to 1925 have been honored as has been our Champions since being admitted to the VFL in 1925. Club Historian, Darren Arthur and WB Executive Rachael Murphy have been keys to making this happen. Last year's B and F. ran a feature on our first finals appearance in 1938, including an interview with one of our outstanding players Jim Miller, who is now aged 94.
There is a lot to like in how the Club has developed in recent times.

Just in terms of this, worth adding in the name Rob Hess who curated the Museum and has brought in a heap of VU students (including a couple of cadetships) to help things along. But both Rachel Murphy and Darren Arthur deserve to be celebrated by us Dogs fans.

[Twodogs]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

The VFL was definitely a stronger all over competition. However it needs to be remembered that the disparity between AFL and the lower levels that exists today did not exist in years gone by. Some of the best players in the country could earn quadruple the money by captain/coaching a country club, let alone playing VFA. Bob Pratt and Laurie Nash (the Wayne Carey and Tony Lockett of their day) both simultaneously played VFA rather than VFL. Unthinkable today. Frank Johnson from Port Melbourne earned more money than 99% of VFL players and made All-Australian selection from the VFA.

The VFL was stronger than the SANFL and WAFL, for example, but this didn't necessarily mean that a dominant Port Adelaide premiership side wasn't stronger than a VFL premier in any given year. And dominant clubs in lower leagues tend to be more attractive to players than also-ran clubs at the higher level.

Due to Essendon jealously blocking western and northwestern suburbs involvement in the VFL, Footscray, North, Willy, West Melbourne, Port Melbourne, Brunswick and even Essendon Association formed a buzzing belt of VFA footy. Big success, big crowds and a burgeoning little scene between them. Those clubs dominated and Footscray was the pick of them. No zoning restrictions and Footscray, as a dominant, well run club, attracted good players - from wherever we wanted.. We were very strong and extremely well respected.

Think about this, the NW & western suburbs clubs I mentioned above won 23 of the 25 VFA premierships contested in the years between the VFL's formation and Footscray joining the VFL..! The only VFA premier not from the west - Richmond - were admitted to the VFL after winning 2 VFA flags. (We won 9..!)

Richmond, after not long in the VFL, became a dominant club. On the day we joined the VFL, Richmond had actually finished first or runners up in 4 of the 5 previous seasons... They were actually considered the best club in the league!

VFL clubs were careful that another up-start Richmond-type club wouldn't follow! It was a condition of joining the VFL that we had to agree to a VERY restrictive player zone. Our VFL sides of the late 1920's were actually a lot weaker than our VFA sides of the early 1920's.

Where we used to freely draw players from a wide radius of the Western Oval, suddenly Seddon and anywhere south of it was untouchable. North of the Maribyrnong also became *!a no-no! Where we used to be able to lure VFL players from wherever we wanted, suddenly we weren't allowed to. It made life pretty tough. The club also lost its pulling power as it became an also-ran club.

If only we were kissed on the proverbial in the way that GWS and the Suns have been! There wasn't much help in the 1920's! But have no doubt, we were a powerful, well respected club in a bloody good league pre-1925.

Don't forget that our sugar daddy George Sayers was prevented by the VFL from having any official function with the club after 1925. Sayers was a successful local business man who stumped up massive (at the time) amounts of money to attract VFL stars like Con McCarthy and Alec Eason.

McCarthy and Eason were the captains of Collingwood and Geelong when they transferred to Footscray. Only McCarthy was allowed to continue playing with us after we became a VFL club.

[westdog54]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

Some supporters, especially from other clubs think we shouldn't count premierships pre 1925, but I am a firm believer that the VFA was a strong competition and the original competition and those premierships should not be cheapened. After all we were up against the likes of Hawthorn, North, Richmond (until 1901) and strong clubs like Willi and Port.

We go alright for a club with a tragic history, don't we

Thanks to everyone for their contributions to this thread. Makes you proud to be a part of the club.

[Webby]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

Don't forget that our sugar daddy George Sayers was prevented by the VFL from having any official function with the club after 1925. Sayers was a successful local business man who stumped up massive (at the time) amounts of money to attract VFL stars like Con McCarthy and Alec Eason.

Yes, George Sayer might have been what would be referred to today as a 'colourful racing identity'! From a strongly biased FFC corner viewpoint, what I've heard about Sayer is that he was into a fair bit of off-track gambling, underground casinos, black lotteries etc.. But he loved the FFC. I think it was in the aftermath of the 1922 GF (where Port beat us narrowly) that some Port players alleged they were offered money to lie down.... Nothing was proven, but the episode resulted in a lot of bad blood between Us and Port. The following year, we met and beat Port in the GF. They went the knuckle, by all accounts.

Port were a notoriously rough mob, so the bribery accusations could've been taken with a grain of salt. However the word was out and Sayer's reputation was damaged. In 1924, Sayer and the club were flying. We built a DOMINANT team. We demolished Willy in the GF and were so dominant that the newspapers pushed for a matchup between the rampant FFC and the VFL Premier - whoever that might be.

That was something the VFL had always resisted, however when the über-pop star of the day, Dame Nellie Melba was brought in and a benefit for our wounded WW1 soldiers was mooted, any resistance to a match would've been a PR nightmare! The game was on!

Of all our 9 flag sides, the '24 side is/was considered the best. Often forgotten was that in '24, the VFL didn't have a GF. They had a pissy round robin concept where Essendon were crowned premiers despite being touched up by (I think) Richmond in the last game of the year. (tinny pricks!)

So the result was that the clear, dominant VFA premiers were playing what was potentially not even the best side from the VFL.. The result of the game was FFC flogging Essendon. Too quick, too fit, too good! As the VFA allowed flick-passing and the VFL didn't, that was initially used as an excuse.. Then the excuse that Essendon weren't completely 'up for it' was used.. That excuse seems completely lame, as Eesendon's legitimacy as premiers had been questioned. They had plenty to prove. Plenty resting on the game!

Once that excuse was brushed aside, much later, claims of Essendon players being bribed by Sayer were made. To me, that sounds like desperation to save face by either Essendon or the VFL. It seems convenient that the old Port accusation was resurrected as excuse number 3 for Essendon's humiliating defeat... In any case, Sayer was into a lot more 'shennanigans' than that. Either as an effort to legitimise the accusation, or because they were simply hoity-toity, holier than thou pricks, the League refused to allow Sayer to remain president once they had us in their fold.

McCarthy and Eason were the captains of Collingwood and Geelong when they transferred to Footscray. Only McCarthy was allowed to continue playing with us after we became a VFL club.

Imagine a VFA side today poaching Joel Sellwood and Nick Maxwell (or typically Scott Pendelbury).. And imagine how petty the AFL would seem if they invited that club to join the league a few years later, but said "you can't have Sellwood anymore!"

As I say, they let us in their comp, but it was on their terms and they certainly took their pound of flesh! Just most of our geographical heartland, deregistering the cream of our playing list, and flicking our president and benefactor!.. It's galling to see how GWS and GC are treated... Not to mention what WCE and Adelaide were offered when they joined... Not to mention what Adelaide cost us..!

[Stevo]

Re: Footscray Football Club. Premiers 1913.

I'm looking forward to getting back to the Whitten Oval next year to watch a team in the red, white and blue beat some teams. Go Dogs