Recruiting Rumour File 2013

[Twodogs]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

If anyone was going to make Everitt a player, it was Sydney.

Maybe not a player but part a valuable part of a team. There's a slight difference.

Carlton get rid of Jordon Russell and Mark Austin but bring in Everitt..

Mainly because they don't have Jordan Russeell or Mark Austin any more.

[Scorlibo]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

Talls take longer because the gap between their eventual playing physique and the physique they have when drafted is larger than it is with smaller players. Nothing to do with the position being more difficult to master. Bradley Hill and Cyril come in at Hawthorn and have an immediate impact because they play outside roles, dependent on speed and running capacity rather than strength. Thus the physique they come in with is close to that which they play with for the remainder of their career.

In the case of Everitt, I'd agree that it's not much to do with him being taller because he doesn't play in a key position. However, I do think he holds some value. In his time at the Swans he has been a vastly improved player. Let's remember that he played 20 games this year for the reigning premier - that has to count for something.

[Maddog37]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

There is no doubt he has attributes that are important in footy but he still rarely plays a full game.

[1eyedog]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

Talls take longer because the gap between their eventual playing physique and the physique they have when drafd is larger than itis with smaller players. Nothing to do with the position being more difficult to master. Bradley Hill and Cyril come in at Hawthorn and have an immediate impact because they play outside roles, dependent on speed and running capacity rather than strength. Thus the physique they come in with is close to that which they play with for the remainder of their career.

In the case of Everitt, I'd agree that it's not much to do with him being taller because he doesn't play in a key position. However, I do think he holds some value. In his time at the Swans he has been a vastly improved player. Let's remember that he played 20 games this year for the reigning premier - that has to count for something.

As a junior I was always told that CHF is traditionally the most difficult position to play on the ground? I heard Steve Hocking say this at Newtown Football Club when he coached in the GFL.

Given the above will Boyd come in and have an immediate impact because the physique he comes in with is close to the physique he will play with for the remainder of his career? Patton too? I'm not saying you're wrong because CHF is a physical position and it demands a mature body to be effective there but it is technically a difficult position to play well in. At least that is what I was told.

Just on Everitt Sydney had so many injuries this year that they had to play him, even when there were mass calls for him to be dropped on BF.

[Scorlibo]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

As a junior I was always told that CHF is traditionally the most difficult position to play on the ground? I heard Steve Hocking say this at Newtown Football Club when he coached in the GFL.

Given the above will Boyd come in and have an immediate impact because the physique he comes in with is close to the physique he will play with for the remainder of his career? Patton too? I'm not saying you're wrong because CHF is a physical position and it demands a mature body to be effective there but it is technically a difficult position to play well in. At least that is what I was told.

Just on Everitt Sydney had so many injuries this year that they had to play him, even when there were mass calls for him to be dropped on BF.

Firstly, 20 games doesn't suggest such great reluctance to play him. Injuries or no injuries.

I played CHF last year for my local club, and have also spent a lot of my time playing as an on-baller. In terms of technical difficulty, there's a lot to learn in both roles.

As a CHF, it's super important to read the 'quick kick' and in this respect knowing your teammates is invaluable. Generally in today's game, and I believe this happens at most levels of footy, the ball carrier will only kick when they have exhausted their handball options and are still under pressure or when they are under no pressure and able to look upfield. I find that the former is much more difficult than the latter for the CHF because a) the quality of disposal coming from the ball carrier is poor when it is a rushed kick forward and b) the timing of the lead is far more difficult. The nuances of contested work are there obviously, but leading patterns are the most significant hurdle for young CHFs.

As a mid, the stoppage set ups, overlap handball and balance between offensive/defensive run are just as challenging.

I think the more pressing question is whether a player who is already playing a key forward role very, very well at a lower level of footy (such as Tom Boyd) will find it more difficult than a midfielder to adapt to AFL quality footy. I'm not sure the step up is so much more pronounced, if at all. You have to remember that these guys when they come in have already spent years perfecting their craft and have received quality coaching.

In contrast, in regards to physical demands, midfielders coming into the game are already running elite beep tests and 3km time trials. To play midfield in the AFL, most of them will have to put on about 5 more kilos of muscle. For a forward, it will usually be double this, plus more conditioning work to up their aerobic capacity (someone like Nick Riewoldt as a case in point uses his elite endurance to lead back and forth endlessly but must also have the power/weight in the contest). As others have said about Ayce, his body shape has completely changed and we can't underestimate how this will have affected him as an athlete.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

Thanks for those insights Scorlibo.

One area Ayce improved significantly is his mobility. Had a go kicking a quick snap around the body a few times when he played and it paid off.
I visited Whitten Oval one day to watch training and the forwards were doing drills, with Ash Hansen throwing the ball continually into their outstretched hands to strengthen them. This was good to see, and Ayce and Liam still often don't hold onto the pill and it's that final grab where they are both falling short.

[1eyedog]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

Firstly, 20 games doesn't suggest such great reluctance to play him. Injuries or no injuries.

I played CHF last year for my local club, and have also spent a lot of my time playing as an on-baller. In terms of technical difficulty, there's a lot to learn in both roles.

As a CHF, it's super important to read the 'quick kick' and in this respect knowing your teammates is invaluable. Generally in today's game, and I believe this happens at most levels of footy, the ball carrier will only kick when they have exhausted their handball options and are still under pressure or when they are under no pressure and able to look upfield. I find that the former is much more difficult than the latter for the CHF because a) the quality of disposal coming from the ball carrier is poor when it is a rushed kick forward and b) the timing of the lead is far more difficult. The nuances of contested work are there obviously, but leading patterns are the most significant hurdle for young CHFs.

As a mid, the stoppage set ups, overlap handball and balance between offensive/defensive run are just as challenging.

I think the more pressing question is whether a player who is already playing a key forward role very, very well at a lower level of footy (such as Tom Boyd) will find it more difficult than a midfielder to adapt to AFL quality footy. I'm not sure the step up is so much more pronounced, if at all. You have to remember that these guys when they come in have already spent years perfecting their craft and have received quality coaching.

In contrast, in regards to physical demands, midfielders coming into the game are already running elite beep tests and 3km time trials. To play midfield in the AFL, most of them will have to put on about 5 more kilos of muscle. For a forward, it will usually be double this, plus more conditioning work to up their aerobic capacity (someone like Nick Riewoldt as a case in point uses his elite endurance to lead back and forth endlessly but must also have the power/weight in the contest). As others have said about Ayce, his body shape has completely changed and we can't underestimate how this will have affected him as an athlete.

Good post with interesting insight into the requirements to play midfield (I played in the ruck for one game for my whole career and never went in the middle again). Steve Hocking told me that the key factor for a young CHF was knowing when to lead (and yes knowing the limitations of the your team mates is critical here), knowing how to work up the ground and double back (again this is an endurance / strength issue), the other factor was understanding space and how to maximise it to get separation from your opponent (but I guess this is applicable to any forward). Steve told me that Barry Stoneham was the best CHF he had seen in terms of reading the play to know how to react (in terms of leading, doubling back and creating space as above).

I always thought that midfield was see ball get ball but I understand now there is a lot more to it but would you say that a CHF has to be able to understand how to read the play more than a midfielder to be truly effective? As you say Nick Riewoldt would be the classic modern example of the perfect CHF. Good pub discussion this one...

Steve coached me at the Eagles for two years and was my best coach ever, taught me so much, but I was just an unfit FF who really didn't move much further than about 30 metres out

[Dry Rot]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

I was just an unfit FF who really didn't move much further than about 30 metres out

Would your last name be Cook by any chance?

[1eyedog]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

Would your last name be Cook by any chance?

No Jakovich actually

[Mofra]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

I think the more pressing question is whether a player who is already playing a key forward role very, very well at a lower level of footy (such as Tom Boyd) will find it more difficult than a midfielder to adapt to AFL quality footy. I'm not sure the step up is so much more pronounced, if at all. You have to remember that these guys when they come in have already spent years perfecting their craft and have received quality coaching.

In addition, running patterns and set ups for forwards are far more complex at AFL level then they are in junior ranks, and the talls are generally the lynchpin - this from the horses mouth (ex-listed player who was drafted as a forward).

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

Would your last name be Cook by any chance?

His mum told him to contest the charge.

[Twodogs]

Re: Recruiting Rumour File 2013

His mum told him to contest the charge.

Us boys always listen to our dear old mum.