8 Emerging Players

[GVGjr]

Re: 8 Emerging Players

You could add Hodge to that list, I suppose it comes down to the old arguement in second grade sport , are you playing to groom or playing to win?

Victoria probably has the same rule as Australian team has the last 5 years, goes with the safe option, somewhere along the line it catches up though.

Hodge didn't play Shield cricket last year.

You would be one of the biggest critics on Australian team selections and their supposed bias towards the New South Welshmen but Vic Cricket just doesn't champion young cricketers like the Blues do.
They pick a lot of 18yo and when it works they are prepared to drop others back to keep them in. Despite their success, the Vics need to make the hard call on players.

[Greystache]

Re: 8 Emerging Players

Hodge didn't play Shield cricket last year.

You would be one of the biggest critics on Australian team selections and their supposed bias towards the New South Welshmen but Vic Cricket just doesn't champion young cricketers like the Blues do.
They pick a lot of 18yo and when it works they are prepared to drop others back to keep them in. Despite their success, the Vics need to make the hard call on players.

I agree with you completely. The Vic coaches and selectors love to moan about Victorian players being snubbed at the Australian selection table, but how often does Victoria have young players on the up who are demanding selection? Hodge, D Hussey, Rogers, Wright? Of course not, they're players who hit peak form where their output would warrant Australian selection in their peak years-29-33. Those types are never going to get a test call up.

The rare occasion Victoria gives potential upcoming star an opportunity early, and they delivery, they're into test calculations as quick as anywhere esle- Siddle, White, Pattinson etc. Wade is being talked about now.

At the end of the day Victoria would prefer to win domestic titles than promote young players, the whingeing about a bias against our players is garbage.

[ledge]

Re: 8 Emerging Players

I agree with you completely. The Vic coaches and selectors love to moan about Victorian players being snubbed at the Australian selection table, but how often does Victoria have young players on the up who are demanding selection? Hodge, D Hussey, Rogers, Wright? Of course not, they're players who hit peak form where their output would warrant Australian selection in their peak years-29-33. Those types are never going to get a test call up.

The rare occasion Victoria gives potential upcoming star an opportunity early, and they delivery, they're into test calculations as quick as anywhere esle- Siddle, White, Pattinson etc. Wade is being talked about now.

At the end of the day Victoria would prefer to win domestic titles than promote young players, the whingeing about a bias against our players is garbage.

The bias comes from when blokes like Hodge were young and not picked, probably goes back about 15 years of history i suppose even when a young vic does look good its one test or two then dropped but others are given longer.
Hodge made a 200 in test cricket, got dropped Ponting doesnt make a hundred in a year and still gets picked.
Hodge was crowned the best 20/20 player in the world and still Australia didnt pick him, thats not bias?
I remember Shipperd being disgusted in the selectors choices too, its not exactly rubbish.
But yes the Vics have tended to chase titles the last few years and its an older squad now.
Wade is only in the mix because Paine got injured and Haddins dead set lost it but Wade still waiting and Haddins VC???

[ledge]

Re: 8 Emerging Players

Reality is if your going to play young guns do it dont go half arsed, Haddin Ponting both pushing later 30s and going nowhere but down.
Wasting time instead of blooding Wade and others.
Not necassarily Victorians just get these 21 year olds in

[Greystache]

Re: 8 Emerging Players

The bias comes from when blokes like Hodge were young and not picked, probably goes back about 15 years of history i suppose even when a young vic does look good its one test or two then dropped but others are given longer.
Hodge made a 200 in test cricket, got dropped Ponting doesnt make a hundred in a year and still gets picked.
Hodge was crowned the best 20/20 player in the world and still Australia didnt pick him, thats not bias?
I remember Shipperd being disgusted in the selectors choices too, its not exactly rubbish.
But yes the Vics have tended to chase titles the last few years and its an older squad now.
Wade is only in the mix because Paine got injured and Haddins dead set lost it but Wade still waiting and Haddins VC???

Hodge's biggest problem was his timing of peaks and troughs was awful. He was set to be the next Australian project when he burst onto the scene, but just as he was about to breakthrough into a strong team he went 2-3 years without making a run and thus fell behind a long list of players like Hayden, Langer, Ponting etc. Later on Hodge was set to secure a role after rediculously being dropped after his 200 to make way for Ponting's best mate, he made a mountain of runs in ODI's but didn't keep his spot for the WC, straight afterwards he was included in the team on a 7 match tour of India but again lost form completely and was subsequently dropped.

No one is a bigger supporter of Hodge than I, especially as he has supplied me with all my cricket gear for the past few years, but he could have helped himself at times.

Got anyone else?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: 8 Emerging Players

**** the national side.

We're here to win the shield.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: 8 Emerging Players

The problem I have is the opportunities some blokes get and others don't.

Katich had a fine career but never deserved his original shot.

The standard of shield cricket is (was?) so high any of the fringe guys who were given a chance to train full time in that environment would most likely succeed. My beef is in how they decide who gets that chance.

Twodogs once said to me, "the Australian team balance is 5 batsman, 4 bowlers, a wicketkeeper and a good bloke".

[ledge]

Re: 8 Emerging Players

Lehmann playing for Australia dropped when he came to Vic went back to SA got picked again.
White recognized as an amazing cricketer and brain at 19 a spinner who could bat bigtime,left to rot in state cricket.
Elliott killing them got injured dropped never a second chance.
Remember Greg Chappell anyone 7 ducks in a row??
Anyway my point is i love seeing vics in the squad but any young kids will do, I hope this new selection committee changes its system and I think we all agree on that.

[Greystache]

Re: 8 Emerging Players

The problem I have is the opportunities some blokes get and others don't.

Katich had a fine career but never deserved his original shot.

The standard of shield cricket is (was?) so high any of the fringe guys who were given a chance to train full time in that environment would most likely succeed. My beef is in how they decide who gets that chance.

Twodogs once said to me, "the Australian team balance is 5 batsman, 4 bowlers, a wicketkeeper and a good bloke".

Katich had a first class career batting average of 53, higher than Hayden, Langer, Martyn, and 5 higher than Hodge, When he got dropped after the 2005 Ashes he averaged nearly 100 in shield cricket, including a 300 to win his spot back. How did he not earn his spot?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: 8 Emerging Players

Katich had a first class career batting average of 53, higher than Hayden, Langer, Martyn, and 5 higher than Hodge, When he got dropped after the 2005 Ashes he averaged nearly 100 in shield cricket, including a 300 to win his spot back. How did he not earn his spot?

Certainly his second stint was deserved based on 1000 runs for the season but he was already in his 30s.

When he first got selected for Australia he was a crab.

[Greystache]

Re: 8 Emerging Players

Lehmann playing for Australia dropped when he came to Vic went back to SA got picked again.
White recognized as an amazing cricketer and brain at 19 a spinner who could bat bigtime,left to rot in state cricket.
Elliott killing them got injured dropped never a second chance.
Remember Greg Chappell anyone 7 ducks in a row??
Anyway my point is i love seeing vics in the squad but any young kids will do, I hope this new selection committee changes its system and I think we all agree on that.

They're really not good examples

White has a career first class batting average of 41, doesn't bowl, yet has played test cricket. I wonder how Jamie Siddons feel about that.

Elliot had a Test batting average of 33, had injury problems, and a host of off field indescretions. He was lucky to get as many tests as he did.

Greg Chappell, seriously? Second only to Bradman in batting average in Australian history. Also it was 4 in a row.

Lehman? You need to research that one again, that's not even close to correct.

[Greystache]

Re: 8 Emerging Players

Certainly his second stint was deserved based on 1000 runs for the season but he was already in his 30s.

When he first got selected for Australia he was a crab.

He may have looked ugly but he made more runs than the players he was picked in front of. Either way he earned his place, even if none of us wanted to watch it.

[GVGjr]

Re: 8 Emerging Players

**** the national side.

We're here to win the shield.

For many years the English county sides had the same approach but lets not criticize NSW who continually focus on providing young cricketers to enhance the Australian side.
We would be on a par with NZ cricket if NSW followed the Vics approach.

No doubt the Vic recruiting team is scouring the country looking for the next Wright, Cleary and D.Pattinson to sure up it's pace bowling stocks for next season and beyond and then will commence the bitching and moaning when there is no Victorian player in the side.

[LostDoggy]

Re: 8 Emerging Players

For many years the English county sides had the same approach but lets not criticize NSW who continually focus on providing young cricketers to enhance the Australian side.
We would be on a par with NZ cricket if NSW followed the Vics approach.

No doubt the Vic recruiting team is scouring the country looking for the next Wright, Cleary and D.Pattinson to sure up it's pace bowling stocks for next season and beyond and then will commence the bitching and moaning when there is no Victorian player in the side.

But you're missing the point. Most of us whinging Vics don't really care one way or another if 90% of the Test side is made up of NSW kids anointed way way way too early who turn out to be largely shit and come back to rot in Shield cricket with their actions and techniques destroyed. (All those wonderful NSW youngsters you're touting that "enhanced" the Australian cricket side "enhanced" us all the way from no.1 to no.5 in the Test rankings -- I don't see what's so successful about their selection policy. They won shit at home and performed shit at Test level. Great selection policy that.)

It's when we (the Vics) keep winning stuff and the one or two younger or middle aged guns we have in our side don't even get a look in a la Wade, despite scoring a billion runs, whereas if he happened to be 16, blonde and lived in Sydney he would have been picked last year before he made a run. What the hell did Steve Smith do or have done to ever justify the caps he earnt other than prove what a shmozzle our selection policy had become? It was an absolute disgrace to the baggy green and insulting to every performing batsman in the country and far far more accomplished players who never got the same opportunities.

Also, we keep justifying keeping players who haven't performed, yet refuse to play players who are performing. The selectors go out of their way to justify strange selections, yet even in the shorter forms of the game we had the ridiculous situation of White being the 20/20 captain and yet not even considered for the 50-over game, and just flat out refusing to pick Hodgey for 20/20 despite being THE best 20/20 batsman in the world for half a decade. If that's not bias I don't know what is -- some can pretend it doesn't exist, but don't insult the rest of us.

ps. In case you haven't looked at the Test rankings recently, we ARE largely on par with NZ cricket. The selection policy of the last 5 years (and, according to your theory, the selection policy of the Test team's de facto assembly line in the NSW shield side), have clearly worked a treat. You seem to keep forgetting that Australia is no longer a cricket powerhouse that can afford to look down our noses at other teams. WE are now a lower ranked Test team, and anyone defending the selection policies of the last few years is defending the indefensible.

[chef]

Re: 8 Emerging Players

Lehmann playing for Australia dropped when he came to Vic went back to SA got picked again.
White recognized as an amazing cricketer and brain at 19 a spinner who could bat bigtime,left to rot in state cricket.
Elliott killing them got injured dropped never a second chance.
Remember Greg Chappell anyone 7 ducks in a row??
Anyway my point is i love seeing vics in the squad but any young kids will do, I hope this new selection committee changes its system and I think we all agree on that.

More to Matty Elliot getting dropped than just his batting.