4th Test - Australia v India - Adelaide

[Remi Moses]

Re: 4th Test - Australia v India - Adelaide

You can take wickets with poor deliveries and you can bowl rubbish and have no runs hit off you. I thought a couple of spells by Hilfenhaus in the 4th test were off the mark and that is why I'm not 100% sold on him. While that might be because he bowled a lot of overs in the previous tests I'd like to see if he can be effective away from Australian tracks before making a call on him.

For what it's worth, during over the test matches this summer I was most impressed Pattinson then Siddle and then Hilfenhaus. Cummins made an impression as well.

You're not Bill Lawry are you GVHilfenhaus Siddle Pattinson for mine
Bowled well in England in 09. If he keeps his pace he'll be dangerous

[LostDoggy]

Re: 4th Test - Australia v India - Adelaide

Everyone can have their opinion.
All I am saying is for a test bowler, (in this series), he was the most economical, bowled the most, and took the most wickets.
In a test you want the batters frustrated and not scoring (maidens/Eco bowling), you want wickets. Hilfenhaus delivered on both of these. The swing he was getting when the pitch wasn't offering was good, he bowled the ball of the summer, in Sydney was it?, and even though he was a little quiet in the 4th test still chimed in with an awesome run out.
I know I'm sold.

[westdog54]

Re: 4th Test - Australia v India - Adelaide

Everyone can have their opinion.
All I am saying is for a test bowler, (in this series), he was the most economical, bowled the most, and took the most wickets.
In a test you want the batters frustrated and not scoring (maidens/Eco bowling), you want wickets. Hilfenhaus delivered on both of these. The swing he was getting when the pitch wasn't offering was good, he bowled the ball of the summer, in Sydney was it?, and even though he was a little quiet in the 4th test still chimed in with an awesome run out.
I know I'm sold.

At the same time, GVGs argument still stands.

We've been berating the Indian batting line-up for being flat track bullies, yet when someone suggests one of our bowlers needs to prove himself on flatter wickets overseas he is being hounded down. I think its a fair point that is being made and there are solid arguments being put forward.

Hilfy's series has been fantastic, and GVG acknowledged this, but he was found wanting a bit in the 4th test. He's still in the starting XI, no doubt about that, but I'd want to see him perform better overseas.

[Remi Moses]

Re: 4th Test - Australia v India - Adelaide

Pretty sure he performed well in England in 09.

[Topdog]

Re: 4th Test - Australia v India - Adelaide

Pretty sure it's 2012 and he performed poorly in 2010. All G is saying is lets wait a bit before anointing ourselves as the best bowling nation around.

[Remi Moses]

Re: 4th Test - Australia v India - Adelaide

Pretty sure it's 2012 and he performed poorly in 2010. All G is saying is lets wait a bit before anointing ourselves as the best bowling nation around.

Fair go . The question was posed that Australia needed to improve in all areas .
Including pace bowling depth ( which is just plain wrong). GV wasn't sold on Hilfenhaus ( fair enough ) then proceeded to say he needed to perform overseas( highest wicket taker in 09 Ashes series)Then strangely had him in third spot behind Siddle and Pattinson( each to their own even though Hilf had the most wickets)BTW nobodies "anointing" ourselves as the best bowling nation . Some of us can see light at the end of a dark dark tunnel.

[GVGjr]

Re: 4th Test - Australia v India - Adelaide

Fair go . The question was posed that Australia needed to improve in all areas .
Including pace bowling depth ( which is just plain wrong). GV wasn't sold on Hilfenhaus ( fair enough ) then proceeded to say he needed to perform overseas( highest wicket taker in 09 Ashes series)Then strangely had him in third spot behind Siddle and Pattinson( each to their own even though Hilf had the most wickets)BTW nobodies "anointing" ourselves as the best bowling nation . Some of us can see light at the end of a dark dark tunnel.

I've always known Hilfenhaus could bowl and really this season has been about him returning to his form not actually getting a lot better what ever the stats say.

Pattinson surprised me, he was quicker than I expected and bowled a better than expected line. For his age I thought it was a real positive that he could bowl intelligently and with the tricks he displayed. It wasn't Cummins blasting players out there was some real smarts with his bowling. Gee, I hope you don't twist the Cummins comment into something it isn't.

Siddle has always been the intimidator, they guy that keeps them honest but has turned into a genuine break through wicket taker who made things happen time and again when it was his turn at the crease.

Hilfenhaus being 3rd most impressive in that group isn't a knock on the player but it is looking a bit further than just what the stats say.

Clearly you don't want to accept the points I'm making and that's fine but I want to see our side show something away from home and in Hilfenhaus's case, showing something on tracks like at the West Indies or India rather than the seam friendly decks that were a feature of this summer at home.

As for the light at the end of the tunnel comment, our bowling was good, the test results highlight that but I still want to see another pace bowler getting in to the selection mix and keeping the others honest. I don't trust the knee of Harris nor the ability of Pattinson and Cummins to bowl long spells test after test and Starc hasn't quite displayed the control we need.

We beat up on a side that displayed very little fighting skills and split the series with NZ and SA and that is why I think we need to improve in a number of areas.
Plenty of positives but equally plenty of scope for continued improvement.

[LostDoggy]

Re: 4th Test - Australia v India - Adelaide

The bowler with the most scope for improvement is Starc, having already come on in leaps and bounds this year.

He was excellent in Perth and any left arm quick 6'6" and bowling big in-dippers to RH batsmen is going to very difficult to play on any surface.

The Selectors, come the Ashes are going to have a very difficult time in determining who to go with amongst the six of them. I think there's a fair chance Starc, may sneek past some as he offers such a change with his stature, swing and most importantly, being left-handed.

[Remi Moses]

Re: 4th Test - Australia v India - Adelaide

Agree . Starc was impressive in Perth and brings a different dimention.

[LostDoggy]

Re: 4th Test - Australia v India - Adelaide

Was quite impressed with Starc too, which made me think that we're overstocked on quality fast bowlers. Pattinson was definitely the most impressive bowler of the lot for mine -- just so much nous, looked like a 50 test veteran instead of a kid. Can't go past Siddle for impact though -- he took something like 90% of his wickets within 1 or 2 overs of coming on, which is just unbelievable. Hilfy obviously bowled okay, but for all his stats he's been part of a non-performing pace attack for a few years now. I think he's an integral part of the attack, but needs guns around him (NOT MITCH JOHNSON) to look his best. Cummins has to be in the mix too.

Having said that, there are plenty of anecdotal stories of Indian batsmen facing young Aussie quicks in the nets when they roll into town and being super-impressed, only to find out when they ask who the kid is to be told that they're just rank park cricketers. These guys just don't play well on bouncy tracks against tall guys who can bang it down.

All I'm saying is that EVERY paceman did their job in this series, but may have been made to look better than they are by batsmen who can't play quicks on bouncy pitches.

Conversely, Lyon hasn't looked all that flash, but he was bowling to guys who can play spin blindfolded. The reality is that Lyon is probably a bit better than he looks (he's definitely as good as Ashwin), and the fast men are probably aren't as amazing as the (aging) Indians made them look.

The real test will be the Ashes (England's current Pakistan tour notwithstanding) and South Africa -- two of the top teams that don't make excuses and historically play their best against Australia.

[Topdog]

Re: 4th Test - Australia v India - Adelaide

Fair go . The question was posed that Australia needed to improve in all areas .
Including pace bowling depth ( which is just plain wrong). GV wasn't sold on Hilfenhaus ( fair enough ) then proceeded to say he needed to perform overseas( highest wicket taker in 09 Ashes series)Then strangely had him in third spot behind Siddle and Pattinson( each to their own even though Hilf had the most wickets)BTW nobodies "anointing" ourselves as the best bowling nation . Some of us can see light at the end of a dark dark tunnel.

Why would 3rd be strange. Siddle was many observers pick of the bowlers in the series with his consistency and impact. Pattinson got 25 wickets in his first 4 tests matches ever.

We do need to continue to work on our depth across all areas. Starc has a long way to go IMO and won't be ready for another 18 months. Cummins is fairly injury prone by the looks of things, Hilf prone to drops in form. Pattinson already down with an injury, Harris very injury prone.

We have demolished India and have every right to be happy but I fail to see how anyone would say we are set as is. If nothing bad happens we are but only Siddle has been a constant for Australia for > 6 months.

[Remi Moses]

Re: 4th Test - Australia v India - Adelaide

Agree, we still need to improve in areas.
Starc isn't as far off as you think and I think you'll find most judges had Hilfenhaus ahead of Siddle . Cummins and Pattinson will get injuries while they're still growing into their bodies.