First Test: Australia V England, Gabba

[The Doctor]

Re: First Test: Australia V England, Gabba

Doesn't quite excuse Clarke - he is a captain. Should know better to resort to school yard antics. Do we expect captains to behave in a decent manner anymore?

School yard antics? This kind of verbal disparaging has been going on in cricket since forever.

Did you expect our captain to allow this tosser to get away with threatening to punch one of our players? I'm delighted he he served some of it back rather than cop it meekly and behave subserviantly to them which is what they want us to do.

The fact Clarke stood up to Anderson may see the rest of the team gel together as a more cohesive and united team. It could be a turning point in his captaincy. Guess we shall soon see.

[comrade]

Re: First Test: Australia V England, Gabba

Happy for them to go hammer and tong on the field but disparaging a fellow competitor in public is a no go in my opinion.

[Sedat]

Re: First Test: Australia V England, Gabba

Happy for them to go hammer and tong on the field but disparaging a fellow competitor in public is a no go in my opinion.

Agree with this, but I also think Boof has been smart by basically sacrificing a moron like Warner to make the public comments. Everyone knows Warner is a complete and utter bell-end, and nobody really expects anything remotely coherent or sensible to come out of his mouth, nor will it affect his game as he had made stupid public comments numerous times in the past. Boof and Pup are publicly playing the party line to perfection - "good tough hard cricket out on the pitch but we're all mates and respect each other off it".

I'm no Clarke fan (I certainly admire his talent as a cricketer) but I absolutely love what he did out on the pitch with Anderson. Anyone that has a problem with this really doesn't understand what takes place on a cricket pitch and has done since the game was invented. It is madness that he was fined 20% of his match fee for an incident not of his creation and one that is as normal as breathing in the game of cricket.

[mighty_west]

Re: First Test: Australia V England, Gabba

Doesn't quite excuse Clarke - he is a captain. Should know better to resort to school yard antics. Do we expect captains to behave in a decent manner anymore?

It's the first time I've really respected Clarke as a captain for sticking up for a team mate.

[mighty_west]

Re: First Test: Australia V England, Gabba

Happy for them to go hammer and tong on the field but disparaging a fellow competitor in public is a no go in my opinion.

Same here, there was absolutely nothing wrong with what Warner said imo had it been said on the ground, likewise with what Clarke did, he only got fined because of the stump mic, in fact channel 9 should pay his fine.

[Greystache]

Re: First Test: Australia V England, Gabba

It's the first time I've really respected Clarke as a captain for sticking up for a team mate.

A debutant no less.

[Mantis]

Re: First Test: Australia V England, Gabba

I'm no Clarke fan (I certainly admire his talent as a cricketer) but I absolutely love what he did out on the pitch with Anderson. Anyone that has a problem with this really doesn't understand what takes place on a cricket pitch and has done since the game was invented. It is madness that he was fined 20% of his match fee for an incident not of his creation and one that is as normal as breathing in the game of cricket.

Yep... And wasn't it 30%, but what's another gorilla amongst millionaires??

[Bornadog]

Re: First Test: Australia V England, Gabba

Same here, there was absolutely nothing wrong with what Warner said imo had it been said on the ground, likewise with what Clarke did, he only got fined because of the stump mic, in fact channel 9 should pay his fine.

What happens on the field stays on the field.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: First Test: Australia V England, Gabba

Agree with this, but I also think Boof has been smart by basically sacrificing a moron like Warner to make the public comments. Everyone knows Warner is a complete and utter bell-end, and nobody really expects anything remotely coherent or sensible to come out of his mouth, nor will it affect his game as he had made stupid public comments numerous times in the past. Boof and Pup are publicly playing the party line to perfection - "good tough hard cricket out on the pitch but we're all mates and respect each other off it".

I'm no Clarke fan (I certainly admire his talent as a cricketer) but I absolutely love what he did out on the pitch with Anderson. Anyone that has a problem with this really doesn't understand what takes place on a cricket pitch and has done since the game was invented. It is madness that he was fined 20% of his match fee for an incident not of his creation and one that is as normal as breathing in the game of cricket.

Anyone who has played competitive sport knows that a quip like 'get ready for a F*** broken arm' is only likely to help the opposition play better, and as a sledge goes is ordinary and as threatening as a wet tissue. Any decent batsman would laugh it off and hit the cover off the next ball. If he'd said somthing clever, I'd be all for it. I don't have a problem with him sticking up for a mate, but that's the sort of thing kids say to you in the nets in year 7.

[jeemak]

Re: First Test: Australia V England, Gabba

Anyone who has played competitive sport knows that a quip like 'get ready for a F*** broken arm' is only likely to help the opposition play better, and as a sledge goes is ordinary and as threatening as a wet tissue. Any decent batsman would laugh it off and hit the cover off the next ball. If he'd said somthing clever, I'd be all for it. I don't have a problem with him sticking up for a mate, but that's the sort of thing kids say to you in the nets in year 7.

I suppose you're probably expecting a bit much from sports people, particularly cricketers of this day and age.

Over the last few days there's been some reminiscing in the media of great sledges over the years, and what astounded me there's only a few really memorable ones that anybody can document. I think for the most part, the sledging that goes on in cricket is just as mundane as anywhere else. Clarke just got caught being as mundane as everyone else this time around.

[Sedat]

Re: First Test: Australia V England, Gabba

Anyone who has played competitive sport knows that a quip like 'get ready for a F*** broken arm' is only likely to help the opposition play better, and as a sledge goes is ordinary and as threatening as a wet tissue. Any decent batsman would laugh it off and hit the cover off the next ball. If he'd said somthing clever, I'd be all for it. I don't have a problem with him sticking up for a mate, but that's the sort of thing kids say to you in the nets in year 7.

The feeble way that Anderson, with eyes not even looking at the ball, bunted it back back to Johnson would suggest that he didn't exactly rise to this challenge. Not a lot of getting behind the line of the ball from Anderson in his short innings.

As an aside, I reckon Flower has been disingenuous and cynical in the extreme to use a genuinely terrible situation such as the one facing Trott to take some sort of moral high ground. Who the hell is Flower to expect and demand some sort of 'peace treaty' with Boof over a few words spoken out on the pitch (Warner's dopey press conference aside)? Loved the way Boof dismissed this yesterday by saying that Flower should focus on his own team and he'll do likewise with the Aussies, ditto Mitch Johnson's press conference sharing a similar sentiment. England need to suck the big ones in, toughen up and perform out on the pitch, not play these cynical and contrived games via the media.

They better improve their attitude and their mindset sharply because this series might be done and dusted by Perth. Adelaide will likely be a draw on the featherbed drop-in pitch and England have no hope in Perth, so it will probably be 2-0 coming to Boxing Day unless England pull the finger out and meet the challenge head-on where it counts, out on the pitch.

[Greystache]

Re: First Test: Australia V England, Gabba

Flower says he's been dealing with his problems since 2009, before his debut. He's hardly been able to make a run in 12 months since teams have started targeting him.

Seems to me it's a form related illness.

You've got it arse-about 'stache. It is an illness affecting form - actually it is an illness affecting all aspects of his life, not just the 0.00005% of the time in his life when he is facing a fast bowler.

People without any exposure to depression really struggle to comprehend the insidious nature of this illness and how it pervades all aspects of a person's life. There was a terrific article by Steve Harmison talking about his experiences with the consistent, all-encompassing nature of the illness - hopefully it gives people some perspective: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/...126-2y6sl.html

How can I have it arse about? He's supposedly managed it his whole Test career, right from his first game, yet it's preventing him from playing just as his form has deteriorated?

I'm sure there'll be a chicken-egg debate that could roll on forever, but if teams were still pitching up to him and targeting the stumps, and the runs were still flowing, I don't doubt for a second he'd still be on the tour. He seems to be Graeme Hick reincarnated.

Are you implying that his illness only exists as an excuse for his poor form?

Because that is a really really stupid way of looking at mental illness.

We'll agree to disagree then. This isn't the first step, he's supposedly been receiving treatment for 4 years, this is just the first time during that period he's stopped playing.

No surprise at all

Players will look at Jonathan Trott and think he did a runner

I feel a little bit conned we were told Jonathan Trott's problems in Australia were a stress-related illness he had suffered for years. We were allowed to believe he was struggling with a serious mental health issue and treated him with sensitivity and sympathy. He was obviously not in a great place but he was struggling for cricketing reasons and not mental, and there is a massive difference. There is a danger we are starting to use stress-related illness and depression too quickly as tags for players under pressure.

In his interview with Sky Sports he then completely disrespected anybody who has gone through depression and mental illness by using words such as "nutcase" or "crazy". We have all said things we regret in the media but I find it staggering he is so ill-informed that he used those words. I have friends who have been diagnosed with depression. They are not nutcases or crazy. They have picked up an illness that is invisible to others but can be debilitating. We have seen other England cricketers suffer from depression and I do not think Trott realises just how important an issue it is.

I have no doubt he was going through hard times in Australia but as professional sportsmen playing in a high-profile, intense series such as the Ashes against good opposition you are going to endure stress when your form goes. It is part of the job. As a player there were many times I went back to my hotel room at night and broke down because I did not know where my next run was going to come from. I thought I was suffering from depression but I was just out of form. I thought my career was over because I felt I had been found out. I confessed to a couple of teammates but I never went to the captain and coach and said I'm giving up and have to go home. As captain I had players break down in front of me because they feared their profession was coming to an end.
Trott struggled against the fast bowling of Mitchell Johnson and holed out at deep square in the second innings of the Brisbane Test,

Trott struggled against the fast bowling of Mitchell Johnson and holed out at deep square in the second innings of the Brisbane Test, Photo: Getty Images

Cricketers are paid to score runs and take wickets so when an opponent has the advantage, your judgment is clouded because you cannot see how you are going to find an escape.
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When I hear players talking about burnout, I suspect it is an excuse. You never see players retiring from sport and talking about burnout when they are playing well. It always seems to happen when you are struggling for form and not scoring runs. That is the stress of playing high-profile sport. In fact, you could argue that burnout is more of an issue when you are in form because then you spend longer at the crease under physical and mental duress. The really good players dig in their heels in tough times and come out the other side.

Trott was failing on the biggest stage and he admitted that the previous occasion he suffered burnout was in South Africa in 2009-10, the only other time he has faced top-quality fast bowling.

He was in a bad state mentally in both series but also technically and until he corrects the faults in his game against fast bowling, he will not get any better. His initial movement is forward when you want to stand back as far as possible, and his head goes over to the off-side. Your technique looks after you in tough times but his is not good enough against fast bowling to see him through so the mental pressure increases.

Tough fast bowling is not nice. You have sleepless nights. I had them over facing Waqar Younis, Brett Lee and Shoaib Akhtar. You worry you will be embarrassed or could get hurt. But you have to accept it. If it goes wrong you get dropped, go away and become a stronger player.

Joe Root lost form in Australia. He tried to fight through it but was dropped. Matt Prior lost his place after three Tests. I am sure he would openly admit he went back to his room and broke down on a couple of occasions. But he accepted his fate, said he would come back fitter and stronger but more importantly stayed on tour.

What Trott will have to accept is that players in his own dressing room and in the opposition will look at him and think at the toughest of times he did a runner. He did not fight and got on a plane and went home. It is harsh but that is the reality.

It was wrong for him to brush it off and say England's match against Scotland in May would be a good time to return. Nobody has a given right to get back in the side. It is the England cricket team and he walked out. If he had stayed in Australia he would have been dropped. When a player is dropped he has to earn the right to get back in the side.

He is a good batsman but England will want to see him score many runs for Warwickshire. I would let him play a full year for Warwickshire. He will score a thousand runs and possibly rediscover his enjoyment for the game which is important because Trott is a player who takes cricket too seriously.

The "inner chimp" that Dr Stephen Peters, the sports psychiatrist, talks about is your inner voice which you have to control.

When it becomes noisy you suffer headaches, cannot cope and lose focus. The best players realise sport is their job but approach it as if they are still 15, when you used to play to entertain your parents or mates. Trott has to somehow rediscover the mindset of why he played the game as a kid and correct those technical faults if he is to play international cricket again.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/...#ixzz2wBUaMfWa

[Greystache]

Re: First Test: Australia V England, Gabba

You only need to look at the responses in this thread to see why being diagnosed with a mental illness is so desirable for the modern athlete, it's the catch-all excuse that is beyond question, especially amongst those who don't know anything about it. Pysch shopping is the new black.

It's the same reason my mother-in-law no longer works with professional athletes.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: First Test: Australia V England, Gabba

You only need to look at the responses in this thread to see why being diagnosed with a mental illness is so desirable for the modern athlete, it's the catch-all excuse that is beyond question, especially amongst those who don't know anything about it. Pysch shopping is the new black.

It's the same reason my mother-in-law no longer works with professional athletes.

It shits me tears. I won't declare anything I've suffered from ATM, but I'm about to commence a defamation action against someone who abused knowledge of it (god it's expensive). I hate not only the wide spread ignorance, but to leverage against people that actually have it is cutting. It's no different then faking a physical injury in the Paralympics.

[jeemak]

Re: First Test: Australia V England, Gabba

So in the snippets on the Sky site it says he suffers from anxiety. Are we now saying he doesn't suffer from anxiety?

Forgive me if the videos go into more depth.