Australia vs Pakistan Test Series

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  • lemmon
    Bulldog Team of the Century
    • Nov 2008
    • 6528

    #91
    Re: Australia vs Pakistan Test Series

    Originally posted by bulldogtragic
    North, Cowan and Hughes and others have showed more than Rogers, yet he still gets picked...
    That needs some explaining, in what sense does he not deserve a spot?

    He scored more runs than any other batsman across the 10 Ashes tests for either side then went to South Africa and scored a ton over in the second test there in a losing cause. He compiled four tons in his first 3 test series since recall and was along with Smith the only batsman to guts it out in the second innings of the first test against Pakistan where his 38 and 43 made him our third highest scoring batsman for the game (behind Warner and Johnson).

    He has played 3 less tests than Eddie Cowan but compiled 3 more hundreds (Ed only ever made 1) and averages 7 more runs per innings than Ed managed.
    He averages 3 more runs than Marcus North did per innings who never opened the innings until his final 2 years in the Shield by which time he'd already been dumped for a lack of consistency and he retired last year anyway.
    He has also scored 1 more ton than Phil Hughes despite playing 11 fewer tests. He also averages 6 more runs per innings than Phil.

    In fact his 1097 runs since his recall in the first Ashes test in the UK puts him fifth on the list of the highest run getters in the world in that calender period of time ahead of both Michael Clarke and Steve Smith with the only Aussie ahead of him being David Warner...so the stats say since recall he has been our second best bat.

    It's fair enough to say you'd like to see him transitioned out for someone younger but in what sense has he not performed? Even with the poor series he's having he was our second best recognised batsman in the first test!

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    • boydogs
      WOOF Member
      • Apr 2009
      • 5844

      #92
      Re: Australia vs Pakistan Test Series

      Originally posted by bulldogtragic
      Interesting question posed, what is our biggest issue?
      Have to be our spin bowling attack

      Originally posted by lemmon
      He scored more runs than any other batsman across the 10 Ashes tests for either side
      He's also very good at occupying the crease and seeing off the new ball, which doesn't show up in his average. An important complement to the bash and crash of David Warner
      If you kicked five goals and Tom Boyd kicked five goals, Tom Boyd kicked more goals than you.

      Formerly gogriff

      Comment

      • Rocco Jones
        Bulldog Team of the Century
        • Jun 2008
        • 6932

        #93
        Re: Australia vs Pakistan Test Series

        Originally posted by bulldogtragic
        Interesting question posed, what is our biggest issue?
        Depends where the game is being played. Sub-contenient/asia/spinning deck= our inability to play spin + not having a gun spinner.

        Otherwise= number 3 bat also being the last guy picked is a massive issue. Also, having Harris and Pattinson injured so often hurts. Johnson, Harris and Pattinson would give us a genuinely elite pace attack. It would help compensate for other weaknesses. At the moment I see our XI as this.

        Warner= Elite opener
        Rogers= Serviceable opener (makes a very good opening combo)
        Whoever 1st drop= very weak
        Clarke= Absolute superstar of the game who isn't right at the moment
        Smith= Really good player. Never though he'd be so dependable.
        Watson= Good all rounder when he is right to bowl. Otherwise another hole in the team that must be filled by our best bat.
        Haddin= really struggling at the moment. Keeper spot a real issue.
        Johnson= If I got to have anyone in test cricket to join my team, it him be him or Steyn.
        Pattinson + Harris= guns. If one is injured, we still have a good pace attack. Both means another hole in side.
        Lyon= serviable at best (that's not really an insult for a spinner). The issue is having another serviceable guy in a side with a few holes.

        A mate sent me a text our test side resembling the Australia A back in our glory days. Fair call.

        Comment

        • bulldogtragic
          The List Manager
          • Jan 2007
          • 34289

          #94
          Re: Australia vs Pakistan Test Series

          Originally posted by lemmon
          That needs some explaining, in what sense does he not deserve a spot?

          He scored more runs than any other batsman across the 10 Ashes tests for either side then went to South Africa and scored a ton over in the second test there in a losing cause. He compiled four tons in his first 3 test series since recall and was along with Smith the only batsman to guts it out in the second innings of the first test against Pakistan where his 38 and 43 made him our third highest scoring batsman for the game (behind Warner and Johnson).

          He has played 3 less tests than Eddie Cowan but compiled 3 more hundreds (Ed only ever made 1) and averages 7 more runs per innings than Ed managed.
          He averages 3 more runs than Marcus North did per innings who never opened the innings until his final 2 years in the Shield by which time he'd already been dumped for a lack of consistency and he retired last year anyway.
          He has also scored 1 more ton than Phil Hughes despite playing 11 fewer tests. He also averages 6 more runs per innings than Phil.

          In fact his 1097 runs since his recall in the first Ashes test in the UK puts him fifth on the list of the highest run getters in the world in that calender period of time ahead of both Michael Clarke and Steve Smith with the only Aussie ahead of him being David Warner...so the stats say since recall he has been our second best bat.

          It's fair enough to say you'd like to see him transitioned out for someone younger but in what sense has he not performed? Even with the poor series he's having he was our second best recognised batsman in the first test!
          All more than fair points, however, intuitively I have him as well performed as those other guys, all who have been dropped at various points. I don't see that what he has delivered and what he can deliver is better than Hughes in particular. I'm not saying he has been bad when saying 'not performed', I use the term to describe to my expectation of where I though he should be playing to. He hasn't translated shield records into the next level, if he had I don't care how old he was/is. But Hughes should be back for mine.
          Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

          Comment

          • lemmon
            Bulldog Team of the Century
            • Nov 2008
            • 6528

            #95
            Re: Australia vs Pakistan Test Series

            Originally posted by bulldogtragic
            All more than fair points, however, intuitively I have him as well performed as those other guys, all who have been dropped at various points. I don't see that what he has delivered and what he can deliver is better than Hughes in particular. I'm not saying he has been bad when saying 'not performed', I use the term to describe to my expectation of where I though he should be playing to. He hasn't translated shield records into the next level, if he had I don't care how old he was/is. But Hughes should be back for mine.
            I'm a Hughes fan but have no problem biding his time until an openers spot becomes available and I don't see how changing one of the side' biggest positives: the opening partnership over the last 18 months, could be of much benefit. We rightly lambast selectors for dropping Katich when they did even though his form had begun a relative decline, I don't see how dropping Rogers when his numbers are better than all bar one batsmen since his recall could possibly be acceptable. Should we have different expectations for different batsman based on their first class record even though Rogers is outperforming everyone bar Warner?

            I think our priority really should be identifying middle order batsman. I'm pretty comfortable with Rogers/Warner in the short term with Hughes ready to step in and Silk also looking a decent prospect

            Comment

            • Topdog
              Bulldog Team of the Century
              • Jan 2007
              • 7471

              #96
              Re: Australia vs Pakistan Test Series

              Originally posted by bulldogtragic
              All more than fair points, however, intuitively I have him as well performed as those other guys, all who have been dropped at various points. I don't see that what he has delivered and what he can deliver is better than Hughes in particular. I'm not saying he has been bad when saying 'not performed', I use the term to describe to my expectation of where I though he should be playing to. He hasn't translated shield records into the next level, if he had I don't care how old he was/is. But Hughes should be back for mine.
              Whats he done that is deserving of him being dropped?

              Comment

              • Remi Moses
                WOOF Member
                • Jan 2009
                • 14785

                #97
                Re: Australia vs Pakistan Test Series

                Just saw the Maxwell shot .
                What can you say, the blokes a slogger and shouldn't be playing Test cricket.
                Very very poor

                Comment

                • lemmon
                  Bulldog Team of the Century
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 6528

                  #98
                  Re: Australia vs Pakistan Test Series

                  Marsh batted very nicely for that 50, well deserved

                  Comment

                  • lemmon
                    Bulldog Team of the Century
                    • Nov 2008
                    • 6528

                    #99
                    Re: Australia vs Pakistan Test Series

                    Thoughts on Marsh? He's made himself hard to drop. I know you had some concerns about his technique GVG

                    Comment

                    • GVGjr
                      Moderator
                      • Nov 2006
                      • 44697

                      Re: Australia vs Pakistan Test Series

                      Originally posted by lemmon
                      Thoughts on Marsh? He's made himself hard to drop. I know you had some concerns about his technique GVG
                      I still don't think it's a good technique against spin bowling and ultimately I think he will struggle against good bowling. Very hard to drop now, even if Watson gets a good run. It was a very good innings.

                      The batsman up the order need to get their act together which will in turn help Marsh.
                      Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

                      Comment

                      • azabob
                        Hall of Fame
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 15332

                        Re: Australia vs Pakistan Test Series

                        Originally posted by GVGjr
                        I still don't think it's a good technique against spin bowling and ultimately I think he will struggle against good bowling. Very hard to drop now, even if Watson gets a good run. It was a very good innings.

                        The batsman up the order need to get their act together which will in turn help Marsh.
                        How many times has that been said over the past five odd years?
                        More of an In Bruges guy?

                        Comment

                        • GVGjr
                          Moderator
                          • Nov 2006
                          • 44697

                          Re: Australia vs Pakistan Test Series

                          I say this honestly but I wish this was a 4 or 5 test match series. There are lessons to be learned but I fear we will just write it off as an aberration. Younis Khan might have scored 800 runs in a 5 match series against us.
                          Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

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                          • lemmon
                            Bulldog Team of the Century
                            • Nov 2008
                            • 6528

                            Re: Australia vs Pakistan Test Series

                            Originally posted by GVGjr
                            I still don't think it's a good technique against spin bowling and ultimately I think he will struggle against good bowling. Very hard to drop now, even if Watson gets a good run. It was a very good innings.

                            The batsman up the order need to get their act together which will in turn help Marsh.
                            Deep in my gut I think the selectors will leave Marsh at 6 and put Watson in at 3 considering he wasn't terrible there, especially if he gets runs in the lead up to the first Indian test. It's the wrong move long term in my mind but that's how I think they'll go.

                            Comment

                            • lemmon
                              Bulldog Team of the Century
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 6528

                              Re: Australia vs Pakistan Test Series

                              Originally posted by GVGjr
                              I say this honestly but I wish this was a 4 or 5 test match series. There are lessons to be learned but I fear we will just write it off as an aberration. Younis Khan might have scored 800 runs in a 5 match series against us.
                              We learnt little from India 2013 it appears, so you may be giving them too much credit G. One of those lessons has to be that Smith does more bowling. He's loose but at least his good balls have appeared dangerous
                              Last edited by lemmon; 02-11-2014, 08:42 PM.

                              Comment

                              • GVGjr
                                Moderator
                                • Nov 2006
                                • 44697

                                Re: Australia vs Pakistan Test Series

                                Magnificent batting by Pakistan. Just buried our attack
                                Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

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