Proactive Poaching

[azabob]

Re: Proactive Poaching

The AFL would do everything possible to stop him from leaving GC. Daydreaming for a moment, King would certainly solve some problems for us as it means we could send Naughton back into defence (where he rightfully belongs, IMO).

My concern with sending Naughton back is his field kicking. His athleticism may help him get out of tight spots but he could turn it over a bit.

Wonder where he prefers to play?

[azabob]

Re: Proactive Poaching

Bevo has said he would like to keep group together, however we currently have quite a few players still out of contract. From BT's Player Contract thread

Bailey Williams: 2019
Matt Suckling: 2019 (FA)
Bailey Dale: 2019
Lukas Webb: 2019
Callum Porter: 2019
Fletcher Roberts: 2019 (FA)
Tory Dickson: 2019 (FA)
Dale Morris: 2019 (FA)
Roarke Smith: 2019 (Rookie)
Ryan Gardner: 2019 (Rookie)

8 listed players and 2 rookies remain uncontracted.

It will be interesting too see how many of these remain with us. Possibly none which would leave quite a lot of room for new players. I posted earlier in the year I expected quite a few changes.

Doctor who would you contract and who would you move on?

[Mofra]

Re: Proactive Poaching

Doctor who would you contract and who would you move on?

Honestly from that list I would extend Bailey Dale and could live if none of the other guys get a gig, although I'd seriously consider a rookie spot for Morris more for his effect on others than for any chance he seriously contributes at AFL level.

I suspect Roarke stays, Suckling gets 1 year and Gardner gets another rookie year though (subject to trade week).

I'd refer to keep Bailey Williams but I think he's gone. Even last year when Roughy had one foot out the door the club 'had an offer in front of him'. Williams doesn't according to all reports.

[GVGjr]

Re: Proactive Poaching

My concern with sending Naughton back is his field kicking. His athleticism may help him get out of tight spots but he could turn it over a bit.

Wonder where he prefers to play?

At least years Legends and Young Guns event both he and Richards mentioned that they both preferred playing as defenders. It would interesting to know if Naughton has changed his opinion now. I suspect he might have changed his mind

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Re: Proactive Poaching

Math. Say Morris, Dicko & Suckers retire and Williams is traded - for argument sake. They've signed post premiership, so let's say they're on the average AFEL salary - $362,000. X 4 = $1,448,000 plus Roberts and Webb, say $250,000 each. = $1,948,000. Add in some of the case rise, $52,000. That's $2,000,000 on top of the estimated $1.5-$1.6m with Boyd going. Less some spent on re-signings. But... Our significant savings from exited players have been in part funding the re-signings: Stringer, Dahl, Adams, Smith, Roughead, Campbell, Biggs & Redders (going early/young) etc, etc. If we are brave enough to turn the list harder this year, we are in a position to sensibly, yet aggressively get 4 good very players this year with our money and picks. I'm picking four names we've been linked to in the media for illustration purposes. If we had Tomlinson, Keith, Tippa & Martin in the side this year, would we be higher on the ladder? I think we'd be on the fringe of the top 4 at a minimum.

Let's consider the worst case scenario, and we follow our historical course of missing out on high end trade targets.
What would be our best course of action BT?
We'd probably be at risk of going too low on our salary cap spend for one. But second it would really have to shift our strategic recruiting plan
We would almost have to acknowledge that we are for whatever reason, not a destination club and that would have to alter how we try to attain further success

Would we in those circumstances need to a) try to re-sign our bonafide young talent to very long term deals, and b) really look to bolster our recruiting team to try and find a conpetitive advantage in drafting players? And falling out from that, then try to position ourselves at draft time for the best hand possible in terms of picks?

[The Doctor]

Re: Proactive Poaching

Doctor who would you contract and who would you move on?

I mentioned in the Contract thread that I would like to secure the services of some of the 2020 group that will be out of contract before we sign these guys up if possible. These include Bailey Smith, Schache, Wood & West. Smith & West would require substantial upgrades on their draft contracts. From there we could see what is left in the kitty for new recruits and what we have for the remaining uncontracted players we have.

I generally like us to recruit via the draft and build from within. I also like Bevo's mantra of keeping the group together but not if it means we are going to stay mid table. We have glaring holes in our list that need to be addressed that the draft alone probably won't help us fix in the short term before we are likely to challenge again. I don't think we are too far away. We need to act now.

There is no one on the uncontracted list that I would rate a 'must keep'. If Williams and Dale were able to attract draft picks or pick upgrades that would help us land a player or two that fixes a need that we have been linked with (ie Keath) then we should do it. If we can't land a key defender then we should keep Fletcher. So I guess it will depend on how we go attracting quality players from the market place as to who we should keep or let go. But I hope we are aggressive.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Proactive Poaching

Let's consider the worst case scenario, and we follow our historical course of missing out on high end trade targets.
What would be our best course of action BT?
We'd probably be at risk of going too low on our salary cap spend for one. But second it would really have to shift our strategic recruiting plan
We would almost have to acknowledge that we are for whatever reason, not a destination club and that would have to alter how we try to attain further success

Would we in those circumstances need to a) try to re-sign our bonafide young talent to very long term deals, and b) really look to bolster our recruiting team to try and find a conpetitive advantage in drafting players? And falling out from that, then try to position ourselves at draft time for the best hand possible in terms of picks?

The thing is, most of young guns are locked away, but not all. Won't make a huge difference. We can always shuffle around our cap and move forward some payments if needed. Worst case scanario is we hit the draft and trade a Moneyball player or two. But even a desperado like North recently landed Polec, they just had to offer over market rates. We were absolutely in the final two on Hurley & Wingard and missed for reasons we couldn't get around.

To me our worst case is like North, over paying, but as long as we can juggle it I don't mind if that's the cost of improving the list. Our existing $1.5-1.6M and possibly freeing up 6 good sized salaries on top, tells me money and even over paying isn't going to be a big issue for us. We have draft picks to play with too. I think the issue is going to selling the dream that we can contend as soon as next year. If we can offer players better coin then elsewhere, have the trade currency to get it done and sell playing finals next year then we will land good players I feel, it's just a matter of who and how many.

To me the number of overtures we are making, reading tea leaves, indicates we are moving a few players on and intelligent aggression is underway. Media have us linked Martin, Landgon, Hill, Tippa, Keith & Tomlinson - and refuted allegations of Isaac Smith & Darcy Moore. Then there's offers/interest that haven't made the press. We'd be a laughing stock of a club, so I don't think Sam Power would do it, but if we convince the majority to join us next year and we couldn't pay them. That's bad. So we need to know we can satisfy the clubs and pay the players big bucks to switch. So if Sam Power has gone to all these players, who are needs based players, then he knows we can do it. The media think we are Carl Williams rich with salary cap, we are actually Pablo Escobar rich with salary cap. So whilst worst case is the draft again, I don't think that's realistic in light of our cap, our trade currency and our apparent intelligent aggression in going about it. And we aren't after what I'd call huge dollar 'marquee players' like Congilio, or known names that want a big club like Patton. We are after good to very good players that play a role really well. Let everyone bust their nut chasing the huge salaried players, and who the big names to request a trade will be where we often lose out late. But the names so far mentioned make our team much better and we can afford to make aggressive pay offers to bring them across.

Take Freo last year, lost Neal. But brought in Hogan, Lobb & Conca. Ignoring the trade currency side, like Freo losing a high paid gun, so have we this year (to depression and not another AFEL club). Freo flipped it around by the end, Brisbane got Neal & Adams and lost Beams. I think we will see this more going ahead, a club with some very big ins and very outs in the same year. I think this year will be ours, big to very big ins and quality outs, although we are going to have to make up the trade currency side with our cluster of picks and seemingly Williams and if anyone requests out. I can't remember a time when we've had a top group of kids, some elite players and many millions to spend and a larger the standard draft pick hand to start from. So I think it's going to be good to very good this trade period. But don't forget we suffered for this windfall, Picko with illness, Boyd (our pick 1 trophy) with illness, and saying goodbye to premiership players. This suffering through karma will mature and bloom for us in the trade period.

So in a long winded fashion, I wouldn't think about the draft until the last two days of the trade period. If no one wants bags of money from us, then look to further improve our hand and deal with the outcome post fact. I'm very confident it's just a matter of how many on that list we land and then looking at our draft hand then.

[Dry Rot]

Re: Proactive Poaching

I think this year will be ours, big to very big ins and quality outs, although we are going to have to make up the trade currency side with our cluster of picks and seemingly Williams and if anyone requests out. .

Who do you think will be the quality outs?

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Proactive Poaching

Who do you think will be the quality outs?

Boyd, Picken, Morris, Suckling, Dickson & Williams (Webb & Roberts).

[Dry Rot]

Re: Proactive Poaching

Boyd, Picken, Morris, Suckling, Dickson & Williams (Webb & Roberts).

Sorry I don't rate any of them, as of today, as significant outs. They are either retired, cooked, buggered or not vital.

I thought you meant trading Wallis or MacLean or JJ or someone like that.

[Mofra]

Re: Proactive Poaching

I mentioned in the Contract thread that I would like to secure the services of some of the 2020 group that will be out of contract before we sign these guys up if possible. These include Bailey Smith, Schache, Wood & West. Smith & West would require substantial upgrades on their draft contracts. From there we could see what is left in the kitty for new recruits and what we have for the remaining uncontracted players we have.

True, although both West & Smith will still be earning the mandated AFL salary for second year players before we can increase their payments. It doesn't help us meet the floor for 2020 but we can re-structure contracts for existing players to met the cap-floor.

[Rocket Science]

Re: Proactive Poaching

So the Suns have dropped Jack Martin ... fancy that.

[GVGjr]

Re: Proactive Poaching

So the Suns have dropped Jack Martin ... fancy that.

It could be harder for them now to command top dollar in terms of a trade for a player you drop late in the season. Having said that I'd offer our first round pick for him

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Proactive Poaching

So the Suns have dropped Jack Martin ... fancy that.

Sam Power has asked the Suns that future Western Bulldogs player/s not risk injury before being traded. Sensible really.

[Rocket Science]

Re: Proactive Poaching

It could be harder for them now to command top dollar in terms of a trade for a player you drop late in the season. Having said that I'd offer our first round pick for him

Are you altogether certain he's been dropped for 'form' reasons though?

I'd muse it's been made clear to them he's goneski so they've done about the only thing they can do; drop him.

Watch him go to bloody Hawthorn.