Proactive Poaching

[Axe Man]

Re: Proactive Poaching

Issac Smith was very good on Friday night against GWS in conditions less than ideal for an outside player.

His run and carry is elite and he ranks very highly in metres gained, disposal and kicking efficiency and both inside 50s and rebound 50s, indicating his willingness to work both ways.

If the price is right he's a no brainer for me, an instant upgrade on any similar player on our list.

The last couple of mature age Hawks players we have recruited have turned out alright.

[1eyedog]

Re: Proactive Poaching

What if he costs close to nothing at the trade table?

We've rotated Hayes, Williams and Roarke Smith through the wing and Isaac is an enormous upgrade on all three. We need to get older.
If it was a two year deal for a late pick I say yes. Any more and I'd start to waver. I'd like Richards to develop on a wing but I'm having my doubts in the short term.

Absolutely yes for two years we could be playing deep finals next year. Loving the Tippa talk how good is it further sticking it right up that pitiful club after smashing them by 100 points. Lose a required player or pay more than you want to for him it's a win win all around.

[Mofra]

Re: Proactive Poaching

Absolutely yes for two years we could be playing deep finals next year. Loving the Tippa talk how good is it further sticking it right up that pitiful club after smashing them by 100 points. Lose a required player or pay more than you want to for him it's a win win all around.

I think overall we tend to get a little obsessed with planning for 3-4 years down the track at the expense of wasting the talent on our list who are peaking right now.

Bont/Macrae/Dunkley are playing like an A grade centre bounce group so I'm all for finding players who can contribute next year, even if it's only for 1-2 years. Smith will cost little at the trade table and what happens in two years time? There could well be another gun wingman in his twilight years or Richards does finally make the switch to the wing we think he can develop into.

It's not just about the players we bring in, it's about the opportunity cost of not strengthening the current group when we have a chance to do so.

We know we're getting three gun kids in next year as well so I'm all for adding mature talent this year.
With rumours suggesting Hamling and/or Keath are gettable I'd be all over one or both of them too. Jack Martin, I'm on board as well.

[Bornadog]

Re: Proactive Poaching

I think overall we tend to get a little obsessed with planning for 3-4 years down the track at the expense of wasting the talent on our list who are peaking right now.

Bont/Macrae/Dunkley are playing like an A grade centre bounce group so I'm all for finding players who can contribute next year, even if it's only for 1-2 years. Smith will cost little at the trade table and what happens in two years time? There could well be another gun wingman in his twilight years or Richards does finally make the switch to the wing we think he can develop into.

It's not just about the players we bring in, it's about the opportunity cost of not strengthening the current group when we have a chance to do so.

We know we're getting three gun kids in next year as well so I'm all for adding mature talent this year.
With rumours suggesting Hamling and/or Keath are gettable I'd be all over one or both of them too. Jack Martin, I'm on board as well.

Big yes to getting Hamling back and Keath would be handy. If Smith doesn't cost much as you say, well I could warm to it.

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: Proactive Poaching

What if he costs close to nothing at the trade table?

We've rotated Hayes, Williams and Roarke Smith through the wing and Isaac is an enormous upgrade on all three. We need to get older.
If it was a two year deal for a late pick I say yes. Any more and I'd start to waver. I'd like Richards to develop on a wing but I'm having my doubts in the short term.

What if Isaac Smith cost an emerging player.

Someone will miss for Isaac to be playing. Where does that leave Richards/Williams/Dale.

Does it also question the position of Daniel in the side.

It might not cost in trade, but it may in development opportunity/playing time and the player missing may seek other opportunities.

[Mofra]

Re: Proactive Poaching

What if Isaac Smith cost an emerging player.

Someone will miss for Isaac to be playing. Where does that leave Richards/Williams/Dale.

Does it also question the position of Daniel in the side.

It might not cost in trade, but it may in development opportunity/playing time and the player missing may seek other opportunities.

We're already putting the second or third youngest side out on the paddock every weekend. I'd argue we already do provide ample opportunities for young players, moreso than most other clubs.

We have provided many chances for players to grab that second wing spot this year. None have grabbed it - we wouldn't even be discussing Smith if someone had.

[1eyedog]

Re: Proactive Poaching

We're already putting the second or third youngest side out on the paddock every weekend. I'd argue we already do provide ample opportunities for young players, moreso than most other clubs.

We have provided many chances for players to grab that second wing spot this year. None have grabbed it - we wouldn't even be discussing Smith if someone had.

I think this is one of the biggest reasons English signed a long-term deal. He's head honcho in the ruck and, barring injury, pretty much now gets unfettered access to that role into the foreseeable future. There are plenty of opportunities for our young players if they're good enough.

Our age profile is skewed heavily toward the under 25s so bringing in a bit more experience, particularly premiership players, will further assist with their development. I think there is a spot in the 22 for Smith and a bit of competition is healthy provided the Dale and Richards types get solid game time. I'm all for bringing Smith in, particularly if Williams is out the door.

It's important to provide young players with an opportunity to play, but it's more important to develop a winning culture and ultimately give yourself a chance to win a flag in a highly competitive environment.

[GVGjr]

Re: Proactive Poaching

Very funny GVGjr.

You are right I don't like the age profile, but in Smith's case (despite his age ), I feel we already have similar players in Suckling, Duryea, JJ, and Richards is heading that way. I would rather we put time into a Richards to be a speedy wingman.

Pass for me.

I don't have an issue recruiting older players if it fills a specific need. Smith does however, will we be a genuine contending side next year because that would shape my decision.

I actually think that as a rule projecting a 4 year playing horizon as minimum that I mentioned before is a prudent approach unless you are loading up for a legitimate tilt at the flag or if you are recruiting someone specifically for a short term 'fix'. ie to support a developing player like English

Smith would be very much a 2nd or 3rd option for me not a primary target

If we were to land someone like Martin it could really change us, we would need to land Smith and someone else if we missed on Martin and that's why it has a more limited appeal to me

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Proactive Poaching

I don't have an issue recruiting older players if it fills a specific need. Smith does however, will we be a genuine contending side next year because that would shape my decision.

I actually think that as a rule projecting a 4 year playing horizon as minimum that I mentioned before is a prudent approach unless you are loading up for a legitimate tilt at the flag or if you are recruiting someone specifically for a short term 'fix'. ie to support a developing player like English

Smith would be very much a 2nd or 3rd option for me not a primary target

If we were to land someone like Martin it could really change us, we would need to land Smith and someone else if we missed on Martin and that's why it has a more limited appeal to me

I tend to agree by and large. The very strong public way Isaac Smith knocked back any interest we had was strong enough to convince me he has no interest. Also, when they get Tom Mitchell back, maybe Wingard stays fit, Patton provides a target and if they land Congilio or Hill as they have a chance to, I'd stay at Hawthorn too as a vice captain if I were Isaac Smith.

[Axe Man]

Re: Proactive Poaching

I tend to agree by and large. The very strong public way Isaac Smith knocked back any interest we had was strong enough to convince me he has no interest. Also, when they get Tom Mitchell back, maybe Wingard stays fit, Patton provides a target and if they land Congilio or Hill as they have a chance to, I'd stay at Hawthorn too as a vice captain if I were Isaac Smith.

Isn't this more a case of the Hawks needing to clear cap room than Smith wanting to leave? Obviously being under contract they can't make him leave but if they encourage him it makes it difficult to stay when you feel you aren't wanted. It was a similar scenario for Ryan Burton last year who initially didn't want to depart.

Also he won't be the first or the last player to deny he is leaving to subsequently leave.

Odds are he stays at Hawthorn but as things lay at the moment a move shouldn't be ruled out.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Proactive Poaching

Isn't this more a case of the Hawks needing to clear cap room than Smith wanting to leave? Obviously being under contract they can't make him leave but if they encourage him it makes it difficult to stay when you feel you aren't wanted. It was a similar scenario for Ryan Burton last year who initially didn't want to depart.

Also he won't be the first or the last player to deny he is leaving to subsequently leave.

Odds are he stays at Hawthorn but as things lay at the moment a move shouldn't be ruled out.

I can't say too much other than I don't understand it to be happening, unless something recent changed things.

[Mofra]

Re: Proactive Poaching

Isn't this more a case of the Hawks needing to clear cap room than Smith wanting to leave? Obviously being under contract they can't make him leave but if they encourage him it makes it difficult to stay when you feel you aren't wanted. It was a similar scenario for Ryan Burton last year who initially didn't want to depart.

Also he won't be the first or the last player to deny he is leaving to subsequently leave.

Odds are he stays at Hawthorn but as things lay at the moment a move shouldn't be ruled out.

Well they have 10 players over the age of 30, with 6-7 being regulars in their H&A team.
I think Hawks have one eye on generational change. They did it with Lewis, Hodge and Mitchell and Roughy is out the door too. The only three certainties for next year are Frawley, McEvoy and Burgoyne.

[Dry Rot]

Re: Proactive Poaching

Rumour has it that Smith has fallen out with Clarkson and wants to leave.

[Bornadog]

Re: Proactive Poaching

What if Isaac Smith cost an emerging player.

Someone will miss for Isaac to be playing. Where does that leave Richards/Williams/Dale.

Does it also question the position of Daniel in the side.

It might not cost in trade, but it may in development opportunity/playing time and the player missing may seek other opportunities.

Exactly why I am not enthusiastic

[Dry Rot]

Re: Proactive Poaching

What if Isaac Smith cost an emerging player.

Someone will miss for Isaac to be playing. Where does that leave Richards/Williams/Dale.

Does it also question the position of Daniel in the side.

It might not cost in trade, but it may in development opportunity/playing time and the player missing may seek other opportunities.

Flip side: the development of our young forward line would be massively helped by having a mid who can actually consistently deliver the ball properly to them.