Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

[mjp]

So the trade period is done and I have been listening to trade radio, reading newspaper articles and 'trying' to follow things. Probably like everyone else. And at the end of it - if I summarise - here is what is being said:

- Hawthorn are 'ruthless' because they got rid of Mitchell and Lewis and 'the best' because they found a way to get Mitchell, Vickery and O'Meara.

Fine. But if Chris Grant and Scott West finished their careers at another club, I would have been absolutely spewing and I just will never, ever understand why they did these things. Don't get me wrong, I think Mitchell and O'Meara will be good but without Lewis and Mitchell there, well - does it really matter how good they are? How is this 'getting better' when they have lost their best two mids and given away their first round draft picks this year and next? I am old and not very smart but didn't Hawthorn build their team from the draft and ADD PIECES at the trade table? Since that has been successful, why have they flipped the switch? Not only that, but two of their deals are so dubious that it seems AFL investigations are likely...yet Wright is saying they acted with 'integrity'? Really? The family club?

- St Kilda have 'won' trade week because they got in two reserves players (Stevens and the GWS kid Steele) and one of the Brown brothers who couldn't get a game at Collingwood. How is that winning? Sure, they 'won' the trade with the deal with the Hawks (you know, the one the AFL are going to investigate?) but adding a couple of spare parts doesn't make you premiers.

- The Giants are amazing and have just 'loaded up' with talent again by somehow getting Deledio and pick #2. Meanwhile, two previous top 10 picks walk out of the club for a single pick in the 50's? This is progress is it? And Steele (a previous number 20 pick) leaves as well...But of course getting in Deledio who hasn't played much and NEVER in a winning side and losing midfield depth doesn't matter when everyone has anointed you premiers 2017.

I could go on (and on and on). But I am just so out of touch. Apparently top 10 picks walking out for nothing is now 'good'. Losing club legends for nothing proves you are 'ruthless'. And bringing in reserves players from other clubs drives you to the flag.

And the poor old Gold Coast. Now they have 4x top 10 picks which is apparently bad in the new world?

[LostDoggy]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

Agree mjp. I remember the gushing reviews Crazy Vossy got immediately after his infamous debut trade period. Media will talk up those that nab the 'name' players in the short term, but that means diddlysquat in the long run.

[jeemak]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

Good post. I tend to switch off at this time of year, for the most part.

One word to describe Hawthorn's effort is hubris. Trading themselves out of the next two drafts will hurt them, particularly if they pull a dud effort in 2018. However, they think they're better and the norms don't apply to them. Like Geelong and Norf I think they'll be penalised for not bottoming out over them medium and longer term when usually draft replenishment and access to top 25 picks pays dividends.

The positive commentary surrounding St Kilda and GWS is based upon the trade period being relatively bland. Mediocre returns are being pumped up.

[comrade]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

We effectively traded out 2 potential delistees (Hrovat and Stevens) for draft picks, and parlayed a DFA into a top 30 pick. We also brought in a work horse KPF for nothing.

We get to have a crack at adding elite talent to the group with 2 picks inside 30, while stockpiling salary cap to help retain our stars and have a crack at a very good free agent class in 2017. At the same time, we lost very little in terms of overall squad quality (Hamling is the only one that may hurt is but even he was battling in the VFL 2 months ago).

Yet most journos are reporting our trade period as a definite loss or average at best.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

I also recall the media gushing over Pagan picking up reserve player after reserve player back in the early 2000's.
The trade period now is just for the afl to dominate the sporting news cycle for a bit longer .
supporters also seem to panic when their club doesn't get involved also

[Hotdog60]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

Good post mjp, I think we did alright with the list we have and to improve our draft position. Keep bringing on the kids I say and keep and list team on a good wage so the bastards don't poach them.
I think one has to worry about ripping the sole out of the footy club and like GWS there is no sense of belonging. Maybe the squawks are taking this model.

[Twodogs]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

So the trade period is done and I have been listening to trade radio, reading newspaper articles and 'trying' to follow things. Probably like everyone else. And at the end of it - if I summarise - here is what is being said:

- Hawthorn are 'ruthless' because they got rid of Mitchell and Lewis and 'the best' because they found a way to get Mitchell, Vickery and O'Meara.

Fine. But if Chris Grant and Scott West finished their careers at another club, I would have been absolutely spewing and I just will never, ever understand why they did these things. Don't get me wrong, I think Mitchell and O'Meara will be good but without Lewis and Mitchell there, well - does it really matter how good they are? How is this 'getting better' when they have lost their best two mids and given away their first round draft picks this year and next? I am old and not very smart but didn't Hawthorn build their team from the draft and ADD PIECES at the trade table? Since that has been successful, why have they flipped the switch? Not only that, but two of their deals are so dubious that it seems AFL investigations are likely...yet Wright is saying they acted with 'integrity'? Really? The family club?

- St Kilda have 'won' trade week because they got in two reserves players (Stevens and the GWS kid Steele) and one of the Brown brothers who couldn't get a game at Collingwood. How is that winning? Sure, they 'won' the trade with the deal with the Hawks (you know, the one the AFL are going to investigate?) but adding a couple of spare parts doesn't make you premiers.

- The Giants are amazing and have just 'loaded up' with talent again by somehow getting Deledio and pick #2. Meanwhile, two previous top 10 picks walk out of the club for a single pick in the 50's? This is progress is it? And Steele (a previous number 20 pick) leaves as well...But of course getting in Deledio who hasn't played much and NEVER in a winning side and losing midfield depth doesn't matter when everyone has anointed you premiers 2017.

I could go on (and on and on). But I am just so out of touch. Apparently top 10 picks walking out for nothing is now 'good'. Losing club legends for nothing proves you are 'ruthless'. And bringing in reserves players from other clubs drives you to the flag.

And the poor old Gold Coast. Now they have 4x top 10 picks which is apparently bad in the new world?

Good rant Mike.

Answer my this regarding GWS. What's the penalty for avoiding the drug testers?

[westdog54]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

It staggers me that so many people are raving about the Hawks landing Mitchell and O'Meara and yet conveniently forgetting they are more or less frozen out of this year's draft until the 5th *!*!*!*!ing round.

How does that even happen?

Only two clubs really made any sort of traction out of this years trade period as far as I'm concerned.

Gold Coast - Got good value for O'Meara and have four top 10 picks this year.
Fremantle - Still a strong draft position plus picked up a premiership defender, an extraordinarily talented and athletic forward, an even more athletic outside mid, plus a depth forward for bugger all, plus offloaded a fringe tall forward and received massive overs in compensation. The winners of the two weeks by a fair margin.

[1eyedog]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

The AFL has ripped the heart out of the thing by introducing GC and GWS to the competition. Trade periods since the inception of the two franchises have been haphazard and reactive. This trade period has been the most volatile and both GWS and GC have led the way with other clubs now desperately trying to catch up. The desperation some players are showing to get out of there is bordering on the ridiculous and then there's the flip side, the big money thrown around to lure others in...

The problem is that unlike the GWS' the Hawthorn's and North Melbourne's simply cannot move on their best players and hope to keep up. And it seems that if you are St. Kilda, Carlton and Collingwood and manage to snare a couple of their reject B-Graders (who were once touted as A graders), then you're leading the pack at trade time.

More than anything these two clubs have fast-tracked free agency and have completely dismantled the player - club relationship and all that it once stood for. The only interest group who sees any importance in this is the fans. Woe be me when we lose the Bob Murphy's of this world, the last strands of the fabric of clubs.

I'm old and a traditionalist and things change but the competition has changed for the worst. GWS and GC need to be burnt to the ground and the AFEL has a lot to answer for.

It's only going to get worse.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

The other thing about Hawthorn trading away their main draft picks is that they don't seem to have much quality from their last few drafts either. That spells big cliff approaching.

[1eyedog]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

The other thing about Hawthorn trading away their main draft picks is that they don't seem to have much quality from their last few drafts either. That spells big cliff approaching.

It's a massive 4-5 year gulf. They've got a paucity of talented kids between 19-22 and no future talented kids coming in for the next 2 years. Maybe they'll continually just trade away their champion 30 year olds to buy back in?

They'll be bottom 8 for a long time and the O'Meara's / Mtchell's of this world will be slugging away like the Gibbs' / Murphy's of this world. That said though, I'd still take 4 flags in 8 years.

[GVGjr]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

- St Kilda have 'won' trade week because they got in two reserves players (Stevens and the GWS kid Steele) and one of the Brown brothers who couldn't get a game at Collingwood. How is that winning? Sure, they 'won' the trade with the deal with the Hawks (you know, the one the AFL are going to investigate?) but adding a couple of spare parts doesn't make you premiers.

That trade with the Hawks should never have been approved but will serve the Saints very well.

There is no real trade period now, it's now just a hybrid of a points accumulation game crossed with a hint of Caribbean Gardens swap of parts.

[soupman]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

Yeah Hawthorn have come across a little desperate with their recruiting. Losing Mitchell and Lewis for effectively nothing is a joke, regardless of the provided reasons. And banking their entire future on an injury prone 20 something year old who hasn't played for 2 years is insanity, no matter how good you think your medical facilities are.

Geelong is now presenting as a team desperately trying to cling on to an ever fading premiership window. Barely any young players emerging that would be anything more than a B+, a list that has actually gotten worse over this trade period and the biggest one man side of recent times. Also I have an issue with them getting Deledio and Tuohy to declare their intentions to join, and then basically shrugging their shoulders and saying that they don't know if they have the tradeable assets to get them there and they can't fit them in the cap anyway. Disgraceful behaviour and more should be made of it.

Freo did great. 3 walk up starts to their squad, one with incredible potential, and replaced an ok tallish forward with another at great profit.

GC were limited for options as to who to trade in and will have a young side again, but they now have another chance at a super draft and got Lyons in for unders.

I cannot believe how poor the roi was at GWS for Ahearn and Pickett, and Marchbank also depreciated quickly. More could be made of how McCarthy was worth a lot less this year than last too.

StKilda did well, from a value pov, but made no big moves.

North also got some cheap recruits that have good ceilings, although Williams is a weird one.

Collingwood as usual paid top dollar for players that will likely never justify it. They are paying a lot more money than market rate for many players now; Aish, Greenwood, White, Wells and Mayne. I hope when Moore starts asking for more they feel the pinch.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

After being bundled out in straight sets. Their Footy Manager left. Their Vice Captain walked out furious and won't even empty his own locker. Their Best & Fairest quit the club. An electric running player requested a trade out too. Their president quit earlier in the year too. They then entered into a big trade and paid a young kid, taken 1st in his draft year with very little footy, with a massive irresponsible contract. Isn't this mixture a #ClubInCrisis ?

Waiting for the footy media, in particular Barrett & Leigh Matthews to report on Shocktober, and target that player trade. Then every interview next year to start with naming all the exits, one by one, and highly irresponsible trading.

[Dry Rot]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

Aside from no draft picks for this year and next, Hawks have taken more damage that will take time to see.

How would you feel as one of the 6 or 8 players they tried to get to move to the Gold Coast?

You know that the Club now thinks you are expendable. Your move in the next season or two when you come off contract....