Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

[Twodogs]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

Aside from no draft picks for this year and next, Hawks have taken more damage that will take time to see.

How would you feel as one of the 6 or 8 players they tried to get to move to the Gold Coast?

You know that the Club now thinks you are expendable. Your move in the next season or two when you come off contract....

Especially if you had taken below market pay "to keep the group together. Apart from the captain and vice captain obviously, they're gone."

[Twodogs]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

Yeah Hawthorn have come across a little desperate with their recruiting. Losing Mitchell and Lewis for effectively nothing is a joke, regardless of the provided reasons. And banking their entire future on an injury prone 20 something year old who hasn't played for 2 years is insanity, no matter how good you think your medical facilities are.

Geelong is now presenting as a team desperately trying to cling on to an ever fading premiership window. Barely any young players emerging that would be anything more than a B+, a list that has actually gotten worse over this trade period and the biggest one man side of recent times. Also I have an issue with them getting Deledio and Tuohy to declare their intentions to join, and then basically shrugging their shoulders and saying that they don't know if they have the tradeable assets to get them there and they can't fit them in the cap anyway. Disgraceful behaviour and more should be made of it.

Freo did great. 3 walk up starts to their squad, one with incredible potential, and replaced an ok tallish forward with another at great profit.

GC were limited for options as to who to trade in and will have a young side again, but they now have another chance at a super draft and got Lyons in for unders.

I cannot believe how poor the roi was at GWS for Ahearn and Pickett, and Marchbank also depreciated quickly. More could be made of how McCarthy was worth a lot less this year than last too.

StKilda did well, from a value pov, but made no big moves.

North also got some cheap recruits that have good ceilings, although Williams is a weird one.

Collingwood as usual paid top dollar for players that will likely never justify it. They are paying a lot more money than market rate for many players now; Aish, Greenwood, White, Wells and Mayne. I hope when Moore starts asking for more they feel the pinch.

I hope you're not saying that not everyone at GWS is the best in the AFL at what they do. They are a bit touchy up there and tend to give up easily and stop trying if they think somebody is criticising them.

[mjp]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

I understand where 1eyedog is coming from as well (comments about Giants and Suns) but - oddly enough - I thought Gold Coast presented as a 'footy club' during this trade period more than a few others. They did what they could with the O'Meara trade and I didn't like the Hawthorn centric reporting of what was happening. When their chairman said 'They picked a bad year to take us on' and everyone jumped on him because O'Meara was out of contract for the first time therefore when did he EXPECT them to take him on...but I just didn't think he was worried about O'Meara - he was talking about the fact that the clubs who wanted him (and in particular Hawthorn) were low-balling the offer and offering pick 10 to a club that already had 4, 6 and 8 was really not all they were after. Hawthorn SHOULD have done better. If they had just kept pick 14 and given the Suns 2x first rounders it would have been done straight away...but they wanted to bully the Suns, they wanted the media to bully the Suns - into giving O'Meara away for less than market value.

On that - all the comments about O'Meara not playing for 2 years? Well - I don't see that as relevent to the trade situation. If you sign a reported $700K per year contract then I think the market is speaking...and at age 23 a player worthy of a salary like that is worth A LOT more than pick 10. Isn't he?

As to the Giants, I am struggling a bit there. Can you imagine if our club gave away Pickett (a top 5 pick 2 years ago) as part of a swap for a pick in the 50's? It is a disgrace. Other clubs blow a top 5 pick (remember Tim Walsh) and opposition supporters bang on about it for a decade...the Giants slide one out the back door and no-one batts an eye-lid.

[Twodogs]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

It's because GWS especially seemed to have so many early picks and weird picks and drafts that only they got that no one understood and keep having early picks that they become sort of like Monopoly money. You read "Former top 5 pick" and then see it's a GWS player and it doesn't seem as important as another club wasting one.

[ledge]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

Maybe I'm different but I can understand Hawks getting rid of Mitchell and older players , when they retire you get nothing for them, trade them with two years to go if you have won flags and are on the way down and get a few kids.
Wages will be a problem no doubt though in the coming years.
I suppose you could go the other way and pick up young ones in the draft At least for the first two years your paying bugger all and can wiggle your salary cap better.
Omeara to me is a big gamble , injury prone and if he doesn't make it its one of the biggest mistakes in the history of trades , it will hit them for years.

[hujsh]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

Let's all be thankful that GWS are awful at drafting and developing young talent. If they matched us there simply wouldn't be a competition for the next 5 years

[SlimPickens]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

Let's all be thankful that GWS are awful at drafting and developing young talent. If they matched us there simply wouldn't be a competition for the next 5 years

Gold Coast?

[1eyedog]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

I understand where 1eyedog is coming from as well (comments about Giants and Suns) but - oddly enough - I thought Gold Coast presented as a 'footy club' during this trade period more than a few others. They did what they could with the O'Meara trade and I didn't like the Hawthorn centric reporting of what was happening. When their chairman said 'They picked a bad year to take us on' and everyone jumped on him because O'Meara was out of contract for the first time therefore when did he EXPECT them to take him on...but I just didn't think he was worried about O'Meara - he was talking about the fact that the clubs who wanted him (and in particular Hawthorn) were low-balling the offer and offering pick 10 to a club that already had 4, 6 and 8 was really not all they were after. Hawthorn SHOULD have done better. If they had just kept pick 14 and given the Suns 2x first rounders it would have been done straight away...but they wanted to bully the Suns, they wanted the media to bully the Suns - into giving O'Meara away for less than market value.

On that - all the comments about O'Meara not playing for 2 years? Well - I don't see that as relevent to the trade situation. If you sign a reported $700K per year contract then I think the market is speaking...and at age 23 a player worthy of a salary like that is worth A LOT more than pick 10. Isn't he?

As to the Giants, I am struggling a bit there. Can you imagine if our club gave away Pickett (a top 5 pick 2 years ago) as part of a swap for a pick in the 50's? It is a disgrace. Other clubs blow a top 5 pick (remember Tim Walsh) and opposition supporters bang on about it for a decade...the Giants slide one out the back door and no-one batts an eye-lid.

Agree on GC this trade period Mike and I enjoyed Cochrane's diatribe through the media on their position re. O'Meara.

GWS are like a kid with a big bag of lollies picking out the least preferred. It would be interesting to know how many first round selections played in the prelim against us. I'm not sure how much it's pure luck or lack of talent that they missed out on Stringer and Bont but one thing is for sure they've changed the trade and pick exchange landscape forever.

Anyway I'm ranting again and derailing the OP.

[Sedat]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

Media scribes are lazy and don't do any research on U18's (a couple of notable exceptions excluded), so they always report on clubs bringing in known quantities for cheap picks as winners. It is madness to rate the trade period without looking at the ND and rookie drafts but the scribes do this every year.

I remember our unmitigated trade week disaster in 2003 vividly - the scribes to a man all classed us as one of the winners of trade week that year.

[jeemak]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

After being bundled out in straight sets. Their Footy Manager left. Their Vice Captain walked out furious and won't even empty his own locker. Their Best & Fairest quit the club. An electric running player requested a trade out too. Their president quit earlier in the year too. They then entered into a big trade and paid a young kid, taken 1st in his draft year with very little footy, with a massive irresponsible contract. Isn't this mixture a #ClubInCrisis ?

Waiting for the footy media, in particular Barrett & Leigh Matthews to report on Shocktober, and target that player trade. Then every interview next year to start with naming all the exits, one by one, and highly irresponsible trading.

Is any of the detail in your first paragraph verifiable?

[comrade]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

You have to hand it to Hawthorn though, they are the masters of spin and controlling the narrative.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

Is any of the detail in your first paragraph verifiable?

Nah, I made it up. That kind of stuff only happens to irrelevant clubs.

[jeemak]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

Nah, I made it up. That kind of stuff only happens to irrelevant clubs.

Wanker!

I was hoping to use it in a bit of a FB battle I started on Thursday night. I don't often battle on Facey anymore, and these 'tid-bits' verified would have helped my cause significantly.

[azabob]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

Is any of the detail in your first paragraph verifiable?

Footy manger is now coach of Brisbane.
Lewis is on record as saying he is getting Roughead to clean out his locker.
Hill was traded.
Mitchell quit or was pushed.

[Greystache]

Re: Why I don't understand, can't understand and wont ever understand.

Wanker!

I was hoping to use it in a bit of a FB battle I started on Thursday night. I don't often battle on Facey anymore, and these 'tid-bits' verified would have helped my cause significantly.

It's all true, it comes down to how it's framed.

Us moving on Cooney and Higgins as premiers = a successful club demanding certain standards even from its leaders. Us after finishing 15th = club in crisis

We could *!*!*!*! up a lot in the next two years and get credit for seeing angles weaker clubs can't. Hawthorn have but it won't be for a number of bad seasons before they get slammed for it.