25 Greatest Bulldogs

[jazzadogs]

The club is hosting the "Centenary Gala" in a few weeks, where they will name the top 25 players of our 100 years in the VFL/AFL, with the top 5 being put in order from 5 to 1.

I've referenced the team of the century for players from the early years (underlined in the list).

Hall of Fame was another reference point, with legends in bold below.

So I was thinking if you loosely said 5 players per 20 year period (clearly with some overlap):
1925-1945: Hopkins, Olliver, Ware, Hickey, Morrison
1945-1965: Whitten, Sutton, Schultz, Collins, Henderson
1965-1985: Hawkins, Dempsey, Templeton, Beasley, Bissett
1985-2005: Grant, Johnson, West, Libba Sr, Wynd
2005-2025: Bont, Libba Jr, Morris, Matt Boyd, Murphy

So basically from the team of the century it's Jillard, Donald, Royal, Gallagher who don't make the cut, to make space for our guns of the last 20 years.

Any arguments with that list?

And from the list, who will be your top 5 in order?

[jeemak]

I love the Bont and congratulate him on an amazing 250 games for us in our most successful run, though will still await the end of his career to see where he falls as the best Bulldog I've seen, let alone the best ever.

If Chris Grant played his entire career with fully televised fixtures I feel he'd be much higher rated across the AFL landscape and even most Bulldogs people. He's a complete anomaly in terms of Brownlow voting since Tony Lockett in 1987 and Ross Glendenning in 1983, whereby it's traditionally been a followers award. That he's come second as mainly a CHB and then polled the most as a CHF speaks volumes about how much he must have really stood out in game.

If you split his games forward and back 60-40 respectively, he averages 2.69 goals a game (Wayne Carey sat at 2.67). That's elite for a CHF, so being able to do that when it was traditionally the most difficult position on the ground is awesome. Grant doesn't have a flag though, and if he did he'd be in the next best to Carey conversation (I think he was a much better facilitator than Carey was, due to his elite field kicking, both right and left).

But what about his exploits down back? It's harder to measure because direct stats measuring defensive effectiveness didn't exist at the time, however, based on what I saw I think he has claims to being in the conversation as the best CHB of the modern era. Can you imagine how amazing the guy would be in the Steven May or Tom Stewart role, where most of the hard work is done up-field and you're there to just pick things off?

Here's a comparison of his 1996 season vs. Tom Stewart's career:

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=I&tid1=8&playerStatus2=A&tid 2=10&type=A&pid1=519&pid2=6365&fid1=P&fopt1=1996&fid2=C

Here's a comparison of his 1996 season vs. Glen Jakovich's career:

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=I&tid1=8&playerStatus2=I&tid 2=19&type=A&pid1=519&pid2=107&fid1=P&fopt1=1996&fid2=C

Fair to say both Grant and Jakovich would have been formidable in today's game. Almost unstoppable.


Grant highlights (remembering for most of the first half of his career we'd rarely be the focus of the coverage):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOygPSP5Tj0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLGXQMPY75w

As for his highlights, they show a pure footballer playing a different game to everyone else. They're insane, and completely captivating in the same way Larry Brid's were when they were finally paid attention to a few years ago. Every skill in the book is covered, at the elite level (I can't believe how many one handers he took). It's difficult to comprehend when watching them again.

So how would his skills transfer to today? At 192cm and with his pace and smarts, he'd be an elite inside midfielder. Think Scott Pendlebury with frenetic pace and aerial presence. Or Cripps with decent disposal.

Bont will probably overtake him as the best I've seen for us, by the time he retires. But Chris Grant is way too easily overlooked or underrated in this discussion.

[jazzadogs]

jeemak prompted to make this thread by your Chris Grant post. Could be a new home for it?

[Happy Days]

I don’t want to agree to Boyd but too many guys that I would’ve picked ahead of him (Lake, Cooney, Griffen) kinda ruined it for themselves.

[jazzadogs]

I don’t want to agree to Boyd but too many guys that I would’ve picked ahead of him (Lake, Cooney, Griffen) kinda ruined it for themselves.

292 games, 3xAA, 3xB&F, captain for three seasons, premiership - I think he's probably ahead of them anyway?

Wood, Macrae, Daniel probably the next closest from that era imo and I don't think it's particularly close.

I'll try to find BTs team of the century thread...

[Happy Days]

292 games, 3xAA, 3xB&F, captain for three seasons, premiership - I think he's probably ahead of them anyway?

Wood, Macrae, Daniel probably the next closest from that era imo and I don't think it's particularly close.

I'll try to find BTs team of the century thread...

Yeah he definitely is. He was just so frustrating to watch and I can’t look at him and not see the worst period of following the club I’ve had looking back at me.

[jazzadogs]

I manually searched because anything pre-changeover to New Woof can't be found otherwise, and finally found the BulldogTragic TOTC thread. This is what WOOF had voted on as our best time from 2000 to now:
B: R. Murphy (vc) - B. Lake - D. Morris - 734 Games, 216 Goals
HB: R. Smith - E. Wood - L. Gilbee - 686 Games, 392 Goals
C: N. Eagleton - S. West - M. Bontempelli (c) - 771 Games*, 505 Goals*
HF: T. Dickson - C. Grant - A. Cooney - 679 Games, 921 Goals
F: B. Johnson - A. Naughton - D. Giansiracusa - 772 Games*, 1,116 Goals*
R: L. Darcy - M. Boyd - T. Liberatore - 939, Games*, 366 Goals*
Int: (1) W. Minson - (2) R. Hargrave - (3) R. Griffen - 596 Games, 280 Goals
Int: (4) J. Macrae - (5) L. Picken - (6) Vacant - 523 Games, 142 Goals

https://www.woof.net.au/forum/whitten-oval-online-forum/bulldogs-unleashed/8530-bulldog-team-of-the-century-2000-2100-nominations-open/page4

[Bornadog]

My attempt at the 25 greatest in no order

1. Bont (already in)
2. Tom Libba (already in)
3. Chris Grant
4. Doug Hawkins
5. Brad Johnston
6. Scotty West
7. Gary Dempsey
8. EJ Whitten
9. Simon Beasely
10. Kelvin Templeton
11. John Schultz
12. Georgie Bisset
13. Herb Henderson
14. Allan Hopkins
15. Adam Cooney
16. Matty Boyd
17. Tony Libba
18. Dale Morris
19. John Jillard
20. Scott Wyn
21. Bob Murphy
22. Norman Ware
23. Charles Sutton
24. Arthur Oliver
24. Jack Collins

I haven't included players that left like Bernie Quinlan, or Brian Lake who did better things when they left us, or Champion players who played their twil;right years at the club like Aker.

I also found it hard to pick players pre the 70s as I was only a kid, so I went by the Team of the Century and reputation.

[1eyedog]

Royal over Cooney

[Scorlibo]

On Brian - yes he won three flags and a Normie with Hawthorn but he was a better player with us, in his prime. Nearly 200 games with the club. During those prelim years he was utterly dominant as an aerial interceptor to an extent only rivalled by McGovern since.

I also don't particularly begrudge the defection, that was a time when we were inviting players to leave - Cooney, Higgins, Cross.

Loved Bob, Moz and Boydy, and their key involvement in 2016, but going to the footy in that Eade era, Brian was the guy to watch.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

As a senior supporter I think the teams suggested are spot on. Nobody missed, all Bulldog greats and so proud to imagine a team of these greats of my 7 decades. Ted with the white wrist band and valiant John were my early heroes.
Charlie Bisset was as robbed of a bro we know as Chris Grant. We have a proud history of brownlow champions.
The umps didn't likeTed and Doug.
Back in the 70s there was a imagined fight between Rocky Marciano against the undefeated Muhammed Ali, amazing vision cut and pasted from the boxers of different eras.
I can imagine such footage of our 25 greatest.

[jeemak]

On Brian - yes he won three flags and a Normie with Hawthorn but he was a better player with us, in his prime. Nearly 200 games with the club. During those prelim years he was utterly dominant as an aerial interceptor to an extent only rivalled by McGovern since.

I also don't particularly begrudge the defection, that was a time when we were inviting players to leave - Cooney, Higgins, Cross.

Loved Bob, Moz and Boydy, and their key involvement in 2016, but going to the footy in that Eade era, Brian was the guy to watch.

I remember a sandy Hudson being taken to task over his ongoing preference for Scarlett over Lake when it was clear Lake had overtaken him.....and his retort was - well who would you want in a final........****en wanker. I guess Lake answered that question for him with his Norm Smith's versus one toe poke.

We wanted Lake out, it was clear he wasn't in the frame of mind to play for a club going backwards.

[jeemak]

GVGjr can you please move post 27 from here into this thread:

https://www.woof.net.au/forum/whitten-oval-online-forum/bulldogs-unleashed/1332546-congratulations-to-marcus-bontempelli-on-250-games/page2

If it doesn't happen Aza will haunt my dreams.

[Bigdog]

Not a whole lot of love for Jackson Macrae. I was born in 1995 and have him as the third best dog I’ve seen by some margin. From 2015 - 2022 he was consistently in our best players. Unfortunately the game moved a little bit on from his type post 23.

1 - Bont
2 - Johnson
3 - Macrae

Disclaimer - I don’t think grant was at the peak of his powers in my living memory. Whilst west also had half a career before I can remember much.

I also have lake at the very top end of bulldog players. His 2009-2010 were as good as it gets for a full back. He was very good in 06-08 without getting the due recognition.

His 2010 season may be the best individual season I’ve seen a bulldog play (with the exception of Bont - who has had about 10). The other brilliant individual seasons I remember were Johnson 06 & 07 (07 was amazing as he was kicking bags of 5 in the back end of the year whilst we were getting beat by 70 points every game), Cooney 08 (Aker was also pretty good that year), Hall 10, Griffin 13, Wood & Stringer 15 and Ed currently.

[GVGjr]

GVGjr can you please move post 27 from here into this thread:

https://www.woof.net.au/forum/whitten-oval-online-forum/bulldogs-unleashed/1332546-congratulations-to-marcus-bontempelli-on-250-games/page2

If it doesn't happen Aza will haunt my dreams.

All done Jee. Sleep well.