What happens now?

[Bornadog]

Clear that we need more size and strength. Some will come via development and work in the preseason. Down back if we could land a gorilla that'd be welcome but I'm prepared to stick with JOD and Buss at the moment, wouldn't be doing anything that would roll back their time on ground or delay further investment in games experience.

Are there any players we see in the squad who could take up a different role in the team and really add value? A la Libba Snr tagging, Boyd to HBF etc. Someone to sacrifice their normal game and add a new string to our bow?

I really think VDM could play the Duryea role as the backpocket to play on the smalls. He has played in the backline in the early part of his career.

I tend to agree with you that the talls in the backline are not our problem, but rather the smaller backs who just don't have the toughness and ability to get the ground ball gets. We learned that on Sunday, as well as in previous games, such as the Brisbane match. When the ball hits the ground in our forward half, we are in trouble.

I see alot of potential in JOD and Buss. Both are very young for tall players and still learning the game. Silvagni would be ideal to back them up as he can also play smaller.

[Sedat]

Every team in the top 8 (except Brisbane, although they got a free hit with Levi Ashcroft) improved their list from 2024 to 2025 through established senior trade acquisitions last off-season without losing any players of note from 2024 (again, except Brisbane with Daniher - GWS also lost some mid/running depth with Peatling and Cumming to be fair):

Adelaide - Peatling, ANB, Cumming
Collingwood - Houston, Membrey
Hawthorn - Barrass, Battle
GC - Rioli, Noble
Freo - Bolton (and Jackson the year prior)
GWS - Stringer
Geelong - Smith

We are the only team from the top 9 that had an actual net loss of senior established talent from 2024 to 2025. We lost Smith, Macrae and Daniel and picked up Kennedy, and we also lost JUH and Weightman for the year and Treloar for most of the year, having already commenced a mini-rebuild on the run 12 months earlier. The fact that we replaced these senior players with young talent will stand us in good stead for the future but it hurt us against the better teams in 2025.

Despite all that we matched our 2024 H&A result with 14-9 and a much healthier percentage, having to deal with more key injuries, the JUH issue and Bevo speculation, none of which were a problem in 2024. We got plenty of audits against the non-GWS top 8 during the season, all of which we (narrowly) failed. That is where we are. But it is certainly not blow the place up territory - we have obvious holes on our list that need immediate addressing (quality high-half forwards, key backs, more leg speed especially) and we need to tweak our game plan so we can defend the ground much better. We need to get aggressive in trade period this year to build a net positive to our list (in terms of senior talent) from 2025 to 2026 - if we can achieve that, we are in the mix to seriously contend in 2026-27. And frankly we should have top 4 and the chance at silverware as an expectation next year.

[hujsh]

Obviously the review was rubbish then that we learnt nothing from.
What are the excuses for the failed season?

I don’t think there are excuses. Clearly failed every challenge aside from the 2 GWS games. I just wonder what food will come from the same people appointing someone once again to do the same thing.

How do we make sure this next one isn’t rubbish?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Every team in the top 8 (except Brisbane, although they got a free hit with Levi Ashcroft) improved their list from 2024 to 2025 through established senior trade acquisitions last off-season without losing any players of note from 2024 (again, except Brisbane with Daniher - GWS also lost some mid/running depth with Peatling and Cumming to be fair):

Adelaide - Peatling, ANB, Cumming
Collingwood - Houston, Membrey
Hawthorn - Barrass, Battle
GC - Rioli, Noble
Freo - Bolton (and Jackson the year prior)
GWS - Stringer
Geelong - Smith

We are the only team from the top 9 that had an actual net loss of senior established talent from 2024 to 2025. We lost Smith, Macrae and Daniel and picked up Kennedy, and we also lost JUH and Weightman for the year and Treloar for most of the year, having already commenced a mini-rebuild on the run 12 months earlier. The fact that we replaced these senior players with young talent will stand us in good stead for the future but it hurt us against the better teams in 2025.

Despite all that we matched our 2024 H&A result with 14-9 and a much healthier percentage, having to deal with more key injuries, the JUH issue and Bevo speculation, none of which were a problem in 2024. We got plenty of audits against the non-GWS top 8 during the season, all of which we (narrowly) failed. That is where we are. But it is certainly not blow the place up territory - we have obvious holes on our list that need immediate addressing (quality high-half forwards, key backs, more leg speed especially) and we need to tweak our game plan so we can defend the ground much better. We need to get aggressive in trade period this year to build a net positive to our list (in terms of senior talent) from 2025 to 2026 - if we can achieve that, we are in the mix to seriously contend in 2026-27. And frankly we should have top 4 and the chance at silverware as an expectation next year.

For whatever reason we just can't or won't attract decent players from other clubs. It's hurting us for sure.

We may be better placed for the future but we're wasting prime Bont years.

[dukedog]

For whatever reason we just can't or won't attract decent players from other clubs. It's hurting us for sure.

We may be better placed for the future but we're wasting prime Bont years.

Bont signed on until 2029. that another 4 PRIME bont years.

[Sedat]

Appreciate you sharing your thoughts but really don’t think it’s fair to put any of those things on Libba.

Firstly we’re the number 1 clearance side in the comp, number 1 by a mile for scores from stoppages and scores from centre bounce. Number 1 for turning first possession into clearances, number 1 for both turning clearances into chains and chains into scoring. We literally could not be getting more ‘bang for our buck’ unless you expect perfection?

On the opposition side of things we rate pretty well too, number 2 at stopping the opposition turning 1st possession into a clearance, 2nd for stopping opposition clearances, top 4 for limiting scores from stoppages etc.

All of this is driven by Libba, who is our number 1 effective clearance player, 3rd in the league for effective centre clearances, #1 in the league for hard ball gets, top 5 in the league for score launches (ie first possession in a chain leading to a score, the most effective clearance you can get)

Defensively he’s our best tackler & pressure act mid, is he shutting down exits on the outside? No of course not because his role is first possession ball hunter, and he’s as good as any in the league at his role. Crazy to say he’s part of the problem to be honest - there’s a lot of problems with the way we structure up, which you’ve touched on with your points. None of them are even slightly to do with Libba

Bevo has shown a complete disregard for the opposition in almost every facet of his game plan. We have a defensive line who is chasing kicks at half forward, key defenders who guard space rather than an opponent, hell even our ruckman runs forward for a handball after the ruck contest! Our ruckman ffs! I just fail to put any blame on our mids for defensive accountability when you just know what their expectations are - win the ball and run forward to provide an offensive option? If we don’t win the ball? Who cares just win it

All or nothing, and that’s why we are where we are - a non serious side, once again. It’s quite funny really because for the most part his all or nothing clearance game is working, we have a clearance game so dominant we should be just about unbeatable - but the rest of our game is so so unaccountable that we’re not even a contender but outside the 8. Crazy

For a number of years now, turnover teams are more successful in September than clearance teams. We never had a turnover game at all until it started to come to the surface early last year. For mine, our over-reliance on clearance as a score source in 2025 is a negative in terms of competing against the very best.

Hack kick clearances aren't worth much, especially when the opposition position behind the ball and pick them off to score the other way. We are great when we use quick hands to exit stoppage, but again the better teams have systems in place to counter this and hurt us the other way - Freo exploited this ruthlessly on Sunday.

We have to keep working on developing our turnover game, whilst also maintaining a strong clearance game. Also, finals are more often than not won by teams who have the better groundball game - we need to improve ours significantly, especially in D50.

Ball movement is also critical - we are pretty strong here but we were poor in 2025 at preventing the opposition ball movement (after we were best in the comp in this area in 2nd half of 2024)

[doggies ftw]

For a number of years now, turnover teams are more successful in September than clearance teams. We never had a turnover game at all until it started to come to the surface early last year. For mine, our over-reliance on clearance as a score source in 2025 is a negative in terms of competing against the very best.

Hack kick clearances aren't worth much, especially when the opposition position behind the ball and pick them off to score the other way. We are great when we use quick hands to exit stoppage, but again the better teams have systems in place to counter this and hurt us the other way - Freo exploited this ruthlessly on Sunday.

We have to keep working on developing our turnover game, whilst also maintaining a strong clearance game. Also, finals are more often than not won by teams who have the better groundball game - we need to improve ours significantly, especially in D50.

Ball movement is also critical - we are pretty strong here but we were poor in 2025 at preventing the opposition ball movement (after we were best in the comp in this area in 2nd half of 2024)

Yeah I agree with that, been saying for a while we’re all or nothing when it comes to winning clearances and winning the game. There was an interesting article that came out midywar that looked into which clubs dominate clearances but also how they do it. So whilst we’re one of the most dominate at the clearances we also hold possession the least amount of time per possession, ie we use a handball happy approach to clear the ball from inside the contest to outside as quick as possible.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-05-02/how-the-best-afl-teams-can-win-games-through-clearances/105242808

Obviously what we’ve seen over the course of the year is good teams work this out and completely cover our exits with pressure which forces turnovers and then they get us out the back. What id like to see next year is yes still rely on being a first possession team, that’s our bread & butter - but I’d like a more balanced approach and variety in how we look to take the ball from inside to out. Ie sometimes we can hold possession longer and try to burst through congestion rather than clear by hands immediately. We have guys like Bont, Richards & Freijah in there who can do this.


There’s also the view point that if a quick handball clearance gets turned over it’s probably going straight back the other way quickly, but if a ‘burst’ clearance gets turned over it’s usually either just held in for a ball up & repeat stoppage, or it’s stripped and leads to another hard ball get contest or a HTB (but you’ve got time to setup behind the ball before the free) - all of these are much easier to defend than a straight turnover, and with the way the games being umpired they’re reluctant to pay HTB against the playmaker and all you have to do is ‘make an attempt’ or drop it and you’re fine.

Because our style is so obvious it’s easy for the oppo to adjust to it, but because teams know we like to get off the first possession as quick as possible, it should actually open the door for less pressure on the player with the ball (as it’s all targeted at our exits) and should open the door for more ‘burst’ clearance opportunities

We need to be able to adapt and add that variety to our game to keep the opposition guessing or we’ll just continue to be found out

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Bont signed on until 2029. that another 4 PRIME bont years.

That's not a lot when you think about how little things have changed in his 12 years here. The club needs to get a little more aggressive in resolving our weaknesses. We've had holes at small forward and defence for a while now (the midfield has talent but perhaps not the required determination). Some will point out we've tried to fix it. Maybe we have but no one wants to come here? Who knows.

[Danjul]

They are not real supporters of the club

Only success generates new supporters.

The young are not aligned with anyone. You have to get their attention.

September is when you get them excited.

Following on from a good finals campaign locks them in. We have not done that in 10 years.

2017 should have set the club up for a decade, didn’t happen. Similarly 2022.

The home and away games show you exist. We have done that this year.

But now we disappear again.

[mjp]

We are the only team from the top 9 that had an actual net loss of senior established talent from 2024 to 2025. We lost Smith, Macrae and Daniel and picked up Kennedy, and we also lost JUH and Weightman for the year and Treloar for most of the year, having already commenced a mini-rebuild on the run 12 months earlier. The fact that we replaced these senior players with young talent will stand us in good stead for the future but it hurt us against the better teams in 2025.

To be fair Sedat - Smith didn't play in 2024. If you want to claim Weightman as a loss this year then that's fine...but you can't claim players who didn't play as a loss as well. Smith was really a loss from 2023-> 2024.

From the 2024 TEAM we were missing:

- Weightman
- Ugle-Hagan
- 70% of Macrae and Daniel (They played most weeks but not every week).

[Go_Dogs]

To be fair Sedat - Smith didn't play in 2024. If you want to claim Weightman as a loss this year then that's fine...but you can't claim players who didn't play as a loss as well. Smith was really a loss from 2023-> 2024.

From the 2024 TEAM we were missing:

- Weightman
- Ugle-Hagan
- 70% of Macrae and Daniel (They played most weeks but not every week).

And Treloar

[Sedat]

To be fair Sedat - Smith didn't play in 2024. If you want to claim Weightman as a loss this year then that's fine...but you can't claim players who didn't play as a loss as well. Smith was really a loss from 2023-> 2024.

From the 2024 TEAM we were missing:

- Weightman
- Ugle-Hagan
- 70% of Macrae and Daniel (They played most weeks but not every week).

Fair call on Smith. Even putting him to one side, our list/available players did diminish in terms of senior talent from 2024 to 2025, whilst all other clubs in the top 8 improved theirs. That's why we've maintained W/L parity this year but have fallen behind teams like Adelaide and Freo who ramped up their senior talent last off-season.

We've got to get busy bringing this off-season in more senior talent in areas of weakness. And it looks like we are being proactive.

[Bornadog]

And Treloar

He was a major miss.

[kickit2Koly]

Our back line problems are like the age old question, what came first the chicken or the egg.

Do we play a higher line because our defenders are so bad one on one . Or are our defenders made to look really bad because we play such a high line?!

[doggies ftw]

Our back line problems are like the age old question, what came first the chicken or the egg.

Do we play a higher line because our defenders are so bad one on one . Or are our defenders made to look really bad because we play such a high line?!

I see this point of view a bit but I’m not sure I understand it. If our defenders are so bad one on one wouldn’t we be better off settling them deep and clogging the backline so when the ball comes in they usually have support in the contest (which Lobb & JOD in particular are pretty good at?)

I think the way we set up so high only works if you have elite, athletic defenders because they’re so often hung out to dry on the last line. It worked last year because Jones was a beast defender who rarely lost and could cover ground so quickly to chop off attacks. If you have an elite defence I like our set up, if you have battlers which we do I think we’re doing them no favours at all with the high press.

I feel like Bevo is coaching a game plan to which he doesn’t have the soldiers for imo