Argue against us winning the flag.

[Bornadog]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

It probably made things tougher but professional sporting teams travel all the time. I've never heard that a superbowl was lost because of the travel demands.

A lot different in our case, we were locked in our hotel rooms for 4 weeks.

It's all a moot point now. We have to learn and do better in the future.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

I guess for me the best case to make against us winning a flag is history. It's very hard to get back to the big game. History also shows most teams that cop a pasting in the prior year's flag, don't make it back the next year.
Are we going to be like the Bombers of 84 and 85 who put an 83 point shellacking in the 1983 GF behind them to win back to back.. Or like Adelaide in 2018 after they got pumped by Richmond in the GF?

Time will tell.
I suspect how well we do in 2022 will come down a lot to whether our guys are able to absorb and respond to the shortcomings that were exposed by Melbourne towards the end of the 3rd Qtr and beyond.

[Axe Man]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

A lot different in our case, we were locked in our hotel rooms for 4 weeks.

It's all a mute point now. We have to learn and do better in the future.

[Axe Man]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

I guess for me the best case to make against us winning a flag is history. It's very hard to get back to the big game. History also shows most teams that cop a pasting in the prior year's flag, don't make it back the next year.
Are we going to be like the Bombers of 84 and 85 who put an 83 point shellacking in the 1983 GF behind them to win back to back.. Or like Adelaide in 2018 after they got pumped by Richmond in the GF?

Time will tell.
I suspect how well we do in 2022 will come down a lot to whether our guys are able to absorb and respond to the shortcomings that were exposed by Melbourne towards the end of the 3rd Qtr and beyond.

A good article from the mongrel punt talks about the grand final thrashing, among other things (you need to be a member for access to the entire article):

WESTERN BULLDOGS 2022 SEASON PREVIEW – THE BIG QUESTIONS

Basically they argue that we have more in common with Geelong of 2020 (in the game for 3 quarters), than Adelaide 2017 or GWS 2019 that were blown away.

[jeemak]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

If you asked me which team would likely have more tickets in the second half of the 24th/25th game of the season I reckon it would be the one that's played a game every 9.7 days of the last month vs. the one that's played a game every 7 days. Especially if the latter had been travelling and locked up for the majority of that time.

It's OK to acknowledge that's a huge factor, alongside other major factors (like talls not defending well, and midfielders not defending at all etc.). I get that it's not an excuse that we can moan about publicly because it's our own fault that we put ourselves in that position, but it's a massive factor.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

This. In fact we arguably got weaker in a position of need given our first choice ruckman for the first 2 weeks of finals has left the club.

I think if I was arguing against us then the ruck situation would certainly be front of mind.
Big questions around English's ability to physically compete against an accomplished ruck who uses his body well, and around Martin being able to complete a season.
Sweet might just be the wildcard, if he improves into a competent AFL ruckman it will go along way to help alleviate the "ruck situation".
I've seen some glimpses from Sweet; I'm pretty bullish about him long term.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

I guess for me the best case to make against us winning a flag is history. It's very hard to get back to the big game. History also shows most teams that cop a pasting in the prior year's flag, don't make it back the next year.
Are we going to be like the Bombers of 84 and 85 who put an 83 point shellacking in the 1983 GF behind them to win back to back.. Or like Adelaide in 2018 after they got pumped by Richmond in the GF?

Time will tell.
I suspect how well we do in 2022 will come down a lot to whether our guys are able to absorb and respond to the shortcomings that were exposed by Melbourne towards the end of the 3rd Qtr and beyond.

The Hawks got over run by the Swans and Mitch Morton of all people in 2012. It wasn't as big a margin of course but they rebounded pretty strongly xD

That's a good hypothetical argument against for sure. The GF pantsing memories and how they handle it.

[Vred]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

Ill answer this question after round one...

If we can get over the scars/mental side of beating Melbourne and somehow do something with our makeshift ruck setup than maybe I have hope for the rest of the season, if not and it's another 100 point flogging...

[mjp]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

A good article from the mongrel punt talks about the grand final thrashing, among other things (you need to be a member for access to the entire article):

Want to know how disengaged I am right now.

I am a MP member. I would have received a notification about this article. I would (you would think) have clicked on something like this...

Yet - somehow, it's 100% just gone through to the keeper.

You want me to add another reason we can't win? If the GF has really sapped my confidence in the resilience of our team, what has it done to the players?

[Grantysghost]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

Want to know how disengaged I am right now.

I am a MP member. I would have received a notification about this article. I would (you would think) have clicked on something like this...

Yet - somehow, it's 100% just gone through to the keeper.

You want me to add another reason we can't win? If the GF has really sapped my confidence in the resilience of our team, what has it done to the players?

I guess I look at Melbourne in the years prior, coming from outside the 8 to win a flag * and that Prelim pummelling in 2018

Certainly have a touch of worry though about the possible damage to the core of the group (Hunter, Macrae, Daniel etc).

I'm really not looking forward to Rd 1. The season, yes; Rd 1 no.

[GVGjr]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

I guess I look at Melbourne in the years prior, coming from outside the 8 to win a flag * and that Prelim pummelling in 2018

Certainly have a touch of worry though about the possible damage to the core of the group (Hunter, Macrae, Daniel etc).

I'm really not looking forward to Rd 1. The season, yes; Rd 1 no.

You know the Melbourne players had talked about not letting it (the work ethic) slip like happened to the Dogs after 2016.
I'll say they will be up for the challenge of 2022.

[westbulldog]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

The capitulation at the GF was bewildering, whilst I was there I still can't believe what unfolded. Anyway my take on it is this - traversing across the country for weeks and isolating was a factor and a bridge too far although it was of our own making and the loss to Hawthorn at UTAS proved significant. Some players simply did not perform on the big stage - Weightman did nothing whilst Hannan and Cordy are surely not imo best 22 in 2022. Our first quarter defence was uncharacteristically deer in the headlights stuff where Williams had a mare ; Dale had a poor day by his season standards and Wood was demolished by Fritsch. Their third quarter momentum started with Jackson and our mids not defending and closing them down at centre bounces, little reaction from the coaching bench was evident. Martin is sadly not an answer in this day of athletic and hard running ruckmen. Langdon ran riot down the wing and nobody went or could go with him, I am maybe looking at Hunter here.
That loss should stick in our gut all season, starting at the MCG on Wednesday March 16 when there is a statement to be made.

[GVGjr]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

You want me to add another reason we can't win? If the GF has really sapped my confidence in the resilience of our team, what has it done to the players?

As someone with a long coaching record how would you suggest we would be challenging the team to lift and do better rather than dwelling on the loss? Rebuilding confidence must be right within a good coaches playbook.

While there has been questions about or resilience I remain very confident for 2022. Getting into the top 4 is our first aim.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

You know the Melbourne players had talked about not letting it (the work ethic) slip like happened to the Dogs after 2016.
I'll say they will be up for the challenge of 2022.

They'll be wanting to win one at the G too.

I really hope they don't.

I guess some times you can say you're going to back it up but the small things that make all the difference you may let slip a touch.

Also you doubt they'd get a charmed run with injuries like they had last season.

But as you have pointed out they are saying all the right things and I think Lever pushed himself beyond exhaustion pre Xmas so standards are being set early.

[mjp]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

As someone with a long coaching record how would you suggest we would be challenging the team to lift and do better rather than dwelling on the loss? Rebuilding confidence must be right within a good coaches playbook.

Just as well you didn't say 'with a long and successful coaching record'...

If it was me, I would be making significant changes to structures and pointing out how the old 'structures' had let us down under pressure...and as coach, I should have seen it. I let you down but I have learned...and this is the way forward. It's going to take a lot of work but...blahdey blah blah.

Something like that. It wasn't you. It was me. I was too focussed on winning and because we were successful I blinded myself to things that *could* go wrong...you guys did it right, I will NEVER let you down again type stuff.