Argue against us winning the flag.

[GVGjr]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

Just as well you didn't say 'with a long and successful coaching record'...

If it was me, I would be making significant changes to structures and pointing out how the old 'structures' had let us down under pressure...and as coach, I should have seen it. I let you down but I have learned...and this is the way forward. It's going to take a lot of work but...blahdey blah blah.

Something like that. It wasn't you. It was me. I was too focussed on winning and because we were successful I blinded myself to things that *could* go wrong...you guys did it right, I will NEVER let you down again type stuff.

Thanks for the insight, selling the story that it's a somewhat easy fix will be important for many players to get over it.
What can we do differently in the midfield to stop the opposition get a run on like Melbourne did?

[Bornadog]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

Thanks for the insight, selling the story that it's a somewhat easy fix will be important for many players to get over it.
What can we do differently in the midfield to stop the opposition get a run on like Melbourne did?

I would have thought it is a team responsibility not just the mids.

[GVGjr]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

I would have thought it is a team responsibility not just the mids.

For sure but after a goal the ball was driven long a few times from the centre square. I'm asking what sort of setup we might have been able to use to curb that especially when a team gets a run on.
It's not like we employ lockdown players too often from the centre square.

GWS tend to throw De Boer in there with an assigned job to do.

[Bornadog]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

For sure but after a goal the ball was driven long a few times from the centre square. I'm asking what sort of setup we might have been able to use to curb that especially when a team gets a run on.
It's not like we employ lockdown players too often from the centre square

GWS tend to throw De Boer in there with an assigned job to do

Well maybe this is what is needed.

[Hotdog60]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

Maybe we are too nice of a team and lack some mongrel.
Or is that too old school as in I would have tried my best to put two of their midfielders on the arse early in the piece to say welcome to the final.
Not in a reportable way but as hard as possible with it right on the border line.
We always seemed to be bullied and not the bullies.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

Maybe we are too nice of a team and lack some mongrel.
Or is that too old school as in I would have tried my best to put two of their midfielders on the arse early in the piece to say welcome to the final.
Not in a reportable way but as hard as possible with it right on the border line.
We always seemed to be bullied and not the bullies.

I think there's something in this still, especially in a GF.

Not like the old days with Sheedy and Merrett or Wallis but the way the Pies got stuck into Oliver at the SCG and completely nullified him.
I think DeGoey was suspended, but it was walking the line kind of stuff. Hawks unsociable football.

[jeemak]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

Without wanting to simplify things too much everyone on the field had to be defencive side of their opponent/ minded to ensure that each Melbourne possession needed to go backwards or be locked in. Rinse and repeat until they start taking bigger risks to get the footy forward, expose them on the error/ turnover.

I go back to it time and time again, but the Libba overexuberance that led to the Petracca blind turn was so unnecessary.

Why are you making me angry GG you sociopath?

[Grantysghost]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

Why are you making me angry GG you sociopath?

It was supposed to be about this season! Haha.

[Bornadog]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

It was supposed to be about this season! Haha.

True, however, not just the GF, but a few games, the opposition got a run on and we didn't stop it, so that is the issue we have to ensure doesn't happen again. I think we do rely on Libba too much in the centre, and once the opposition stops his clearances we were found out a bit.

So, who can help Libba? I think Dunks needs to spend more time in the middle. He has the size and strength, and has done it before.

[MrMahatma]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

We can win. I mean, lots has to go right but we still have more upside, and shouldn’t have much downside, unless some players form falls off a cliff which it could.

We should be top 4.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

True, however, not just the GF, but a few games, the opposition got a run on and we didn't stop it, so that is the issue we have to ensure doesn't happen again. I think we do rely on Libba too much in the centre, and once the opposition stops his clearances we were found out a bit.

So, who can help Libba? I think Dunks needs to spend more time in the middle. He has the size and strength, and has done it before.

Yes agree, his injury and subsequent lack of form on return was a real blow. Hopefully with a full pre season under his belt again he can recapture his best.

[mjp]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

Without wanting to simplify things too much everyone on the field had to be defencive side of their opponent/ minded to ensure that each Melbourne possession needed to go backwards or be locked in. Rinse and repeat until they start taking bigger risks to get the footy forward, expose them on the error/ turnover.

It's not a lot more complicated than that but having a defensive 'structure' will (or should) lead to a mindset change...as in, right now, the most important thing is getting a repeat stoppage, controlling the contest and not letting the ball be cleared.

On GF day, our mids genuinely seemed to have no grasp of this (and admittedly, once it was 'gone' it was gone and you do occasionally see that in Grand Finals) and were still trying to win the footy...I hate when people talk about 'Plan B' (as in "that team has no plan b") because being predictable to your team-mates is the #1 key to successful footy teams and (to me at least) "Plan B" contradicts that, but even so...the idea of being able to react to situations with structural changes and tempo changes - well, that should (I would think) be pretty straight forward. As it - there's 2 minutes to go - we're a goal down...play fast. Or there's 2 minutes to go - we're a goal up...play slow. And 'the other team has a massive run on - keep the footy inside the contest, don't let it out, compress the game and just take the air out of this...

And no - I'm not even reading that rambling commentary back...

[Mofra]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

True, however, not just the GF, but a few games, the opposition got a run on and we didn't stop it, so that is the issue we have to ensure doesn't happen again. I think we do rely on Libba too much in the centre, and once the opposition stops his clearances we were found out a bit.

So, who can help Libba? I think Dunks needs to spend more time in the middle. He has the size and strength, and has done it before.

Rhylee West?

The kid is Jack Viney mk 2. Yes he's flawed, but there is no way you'd see Rhylee glory-hunting a possession ahead of the ball.
Libba was doing it but seemed to run out of gas as the finals series wore on. A shame, as his season was sublime.

[Mofra]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

It's not a lot more complicated than that but having a defensive 'structure' will (or should) lead to a mindset change...as in, right now, the most important thing is getting a repeat stoppage, controlling the contest and not letting the ball be cleared.

On GF day, our mids genuinely seemed to have no grasp of this (and admittedly, once it was 'gone' it was gone and you do occasionally see that in Grand Finals) and were still trying to win the footy...I hate when people talk about 'Plan B' (as in "that team has no plan b") because being predictable to your team-mates is the #1 key to successful footy teams and (to me at least) "Plan B" contradicts that, but even so...the idea of being able to react to situations with structural changes and tempo changes - well, that should (I would think) be pretty straight forward. As it - there's 2 minutes to go - we're a goal down...play fast. Or there's 2 minutes to go - we're a goal up...play slow. And 'the other team has a massive run on - keep the footy inside the contest, don't let it out, compress the game and just take the air out of this...

And no - I'm not even reading that rambling commentary back...

One of the best basketball coaches I knew said that match-day coaching is actually pretty simple.
It's like the RBA - during a game you only have one big lever to pull if things aren't going as planned. You can either speed the game up or slow the game down. We absolutely needed to slow the game down but we didn't, we let Melbourne play at their speed and it killed us.

I really think we need a 'scrapper' in the team (or at least, a second one). Roarke is one who had to fight tooth and nail just for his list spot and lo and behold he was in our top 5 players on GF day.

Riley Garcia could be that man - drafted late off the back of an ACL injury. Rhylee West's lack of senior opportunity thus far might mean he can be that guy too.

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

Want to know how disengaged I am right now.

I am a MP member. I would have received a notification about this article. I would (you would think) have clicked on something like this...

Yet - somehow, it's 100% just gone through to the keeper.

You want me to add another reason we can't win? If the GF has really sapped my confidence in the resilience of our team, what has it done to the players?

The difference for you and the players, is that the players have in their control the opportunity to do something positive about it.

As supporters you and I are only able to hope or despair until we see the positive actually done.