Honest reflection and the path forward

[azabob]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

So it looks like we are back here again.

Same questions; yet no real clear answers.

Senior players not standing up in the first quarter; questionable match committee decisions, questionable match ups.

What is clear we are a mid table team

Injuries are definitely not an excuse for last night and have not been an excuse during the year.

[G-Mo77]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

I actually started to look ahead and was thinking, maybe? Last night kind of squashed that. I really can't see us getting enough W's from here on out to make the 8 and if we do manage to squeeze in I doubt we'll get through anyone in there.

We really need to review the coaching staff, match committee and any other game day tactician before 2023. Sitting on our hands is not an option IMO.

We need to review our midfield, too many of the same type. not enough grunt. Libba is our MVP in there, he was the reason the team started working their way back. His will and effort is elite, Macrae is a similar mold but outside of that when the chips are down the rest seem to be down and don't lift. I guess this comes under leadership as well?

Forward half is a debacle, selections can help here in some way but it's not going to stop having so many in the forward 50 and not getting a clear run at the ball. Our game plan is get it in there in anyway possible, keep it there and squeeze a goal out of it. How many times have we seen Naughton leading for the ball and someone gets in his way? Who ever is the coach of the forward half, I think it's the work experience kid, needs to be terminated at the end of this season.

We're still in this so we need to fight this out but at the same time we need to put some work into some younger players, Marra, Cleary, Sweet, Jones I'd really like to see play many times. I'd also like to give Shache a chance again and see if he's worth persisting with beyond 2022. It's not all doom and gloom but it's really hard not to be disappointed.

[Vred]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

Somehow we have developed a coaching system and game structure that leaves us men down in both the forward 50 and defensive 50.

We are out manned at both ends of the ground, continuously, every game.

I don’t know how Bevo and co have come up with this stellar game plan but it is truely a marvel to watch.

[whythelongface]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

I actually started to look ahead and was thinking, maybe? Last night kind of squashed that. I really can't see us getting enough W's from here on out to make the 8 and if we do manage to squeeze in I doubt we'll get through anyone in there.

We really need to review the coaching staff, match committee and any other game day tactician before 2023. Sitting on our hands is not an option IMO.

We need to review our midfield, too many of the same type. not enough grunt. Libba is our MVP in there, he was the reason the team started working their way back. His will and effort is elite, Macrae is a similar mold but outside of that when the chips are down the rest seem to be down and don't lift. I guess this comes under leadership as well?

Forward half is a debacle, selections can help here in some way but it's not going to stop having so many in the forward 50 and not getting a clear run at the ball. Our game plan is get it in there in anyway possible, keep it there and squeeze a goal out of it. How many times have we seen Naughton leading for the ball and someone gets in his way? Who ever is the coach of the forward half, I think it's the work experience kid, needs to be terminated at the end of this season.

We're still in this so we need to fight this out but at the same time we need to put some work into some younger players, Marra, Cleary, Sweet, Jones I'd really like to see play many times. I'd also like to give Shache a chance again and see if he's worth persisting with beyond 2022. It's not all doom and gloom but it's really hard not to be disappointed.

Great post. Agree - not all doom and gloom and a lot to look forward to given the age bracket of some of ‘potential’ gun players eg. JUH, Darcy along with Naughton, English, Weightman, Buku, West, Richards - some quality. Even the likes of Dale, Schache, Dunkley are relatively young. But we really need to reach this potential whilst the likes of Bont, Macrae, Treloar are at the top of their game. We also need to add some defensive talent to the mix.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

I actually started to look ahead and was thinking, maybe? Last night kind of squashed that. I really can't see us getting enough W's from here on out to make the 8 and if we do manage to squeeze in I doubt we'll get through anyone in there.

We really need to review the coaching staff, match committee and any other game day tactician before 2023. Sitting on our hands is not an option IMO.

We need to review our midfield, too many of the same type. not enough grunt. Libba is our MVP in there, he was the reason the team started working their way back. His will and effort is elite, Macrae is a similar mold but outside of that when the chips are down the rest seem to be down and don't lift. I guess this comes under leadership as well?

Forward half is a debacle, selections can help here in some way but it's not going to stop having so many in the forward 50 and not getting a clear run at the ball. Our game plan is get it in there in anyway possible, keep it there and squeeze a goal out of it. How many times have we seen Naughton leading for the ball and someone gets in his way? Who ever is the coach of the forward half, I think it's the work experience kid, needs to be terminated at the end of this season.

We're still in this so we need to fight this out but at the same time we need to put some work into some younger players, Marra, Cleary, Sweet, Jones I'd really like to see play many times. I'd also like to give Shache a chance again and see if he's worth persisting with beyond 2022. It's not all doom and gloom but it's really hard not to be disappointed.

Spangher, so close enough. Don't think he'd coached before? Was in an operations role at Collingwood.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

Bit of a throw away line, but I'd love Clarkson.

I really don't rate Bevo tactically. Amazing motivator, poor tactically. The amount of times our supposed contending list gets outplayed / outcoached is ridiculous.

[jeemak]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

So it looks like we are back here again.

Same questions; yet no real clear answers.

Senior players not standing up in the first quarter; questionable match committee decisions, questionable match ups.

What is clear we are a mid table team

Injuries are definitely not an excuse for last night and have not been an excuse during the year.

I agree they weren't last night, but earlier in the season not having a consistent blend of players definitely hampered us.

[jeemak]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

Bit of a throw away line, but I'd love Clarkson.

I really don't rate Bevo tactically. Amazing motivator, poor tactically. The amount of times our supposed contending list gets outplayed / outcoached is ridiculous.

We all agree we lack personnel in key areas, and are too same same in others, but we just made a grand final with a coach who is a poor tactician? Not sure that stacks up.

And we can't have it both ways and say the coach is a great motivator, but it's not on the players for going out there asleep too often.

[Happy Days]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

Bevo is a jet coach who is also a lightning rod because of who he is and how he handles basic interactions.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

We all agree we lack personnel in key areas, and are too same same in others, but we just made a grand final with a coach who is a poor tactician? Not sure that stacks up.

I don't think it's hard to compute, with respect. If Bevo was a great tactical coach, why have we never finished top 4? Why did we fall from the sky after a flag, and fall again after making a Grand Final?

Our list has certainly been good enough, even despite the diluted talent pool with an 18 team competition.

As I said, great motivator - which is why he's got us to two GFs - his ability to sell a narrative and get players to buy in physically and emotionally is brilliant, but for me there are just far too many occasions we shoot ourself in the foot even against rubbish opposition.

Bevo has spoken about the connection between mids and forwards for years. Has the system actually improved?

We/he rely solely on midfield dominance for the most part.

[jeemak]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

I think we can get a bit clever with our selections, but most of the time they're peripheral.

The big issues are we lack quality in defence and quality forward (including a forward/ ruck). Because of that we have to rely too much on team defence, and too much on spreading the goal kicking across too many players.

Our list management team (including Bevo) have to be better and get some genuinely talented players in to fill these clear deficiencies. The players need to take responsibility for showing up to work each week and doing the bare minimum consistently which they fail to do time and again.

[jeemak]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

I don't think it's hard to compute, with respect. If Bevo was a great tactical coach, why have we never finished top 4? Why did we fall from the sky after a flag, and fall again after making a Grand Final?

Our list has certainly been good enough, even despite the diluted talent pool with an 18 team competition.

As I said, great motivator - which is why he's got us to two GFs - his ability to sell a narrative and get players to buy in physically and emotionally is brilliant, but for me there are just far too many occasions we shoot ourself in the foot even against rubbish opposition.

Bevo has spoken about the connection between mids and forwards for years. Has the system actually improved?

We/he rely solely on midfield dominance for the most part.

I guess this is the bit I disagree with. The players mentally fell away post 2016 and injuries hit. We then went into a rebuild and haven't recruited a balanced spread of talent.

We take a system approach to the game because of the personnel we have at our disposal. When the players buy-in the system works and as we saw last year worked really well for most of the year - and teams find it really hard to play against. You can't be poor tactically for that to happen, especially again, with the clear deficiencies we have in personnel.

Anyway, I don't think we'll agree and I respect your point of view.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

Using last night's game as an example, tactically, Geelong got everything they want;

- Keath, a more of a lumbering type, v the hard running Cameron
- Gardner, critically undersized, v Hawkins
- Stanley/Blicavz v Khamis at times
- Stewart playing on Weightman and McNeil in the first quarter

We got beat by what we know. Yes, our effort was left in the rooms, but we continually make decisions like the above which only make it harder for us.

Just on the list, does anybody really believe Bevo doesn't have a large say in how it's brought together? To give him an excuse that our list is unbalanced is to believe he isn't one of the main culprits. He has a BIG say in our list - whether that's moving on Talia, Stringer and Roughead or recruiting Gowers and McComb.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

What are our tactics?

+1, get it in, keep it in, turnover or kick point and get scored against.

I rate Bevo too but he needs some experienced outside voices.
In my job my work is constantly reviewed by peers and it makes me better. If I insulate I make the same mistakes over and over.
I'd love an experienced senior assistant to come in from another system. Boyd would be perfect.

[GVGjr]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

We all agree we lack personnel in key areas, and are too same same in others, but we just made a grand final with a coach who is a poor tactician? Not sure that stacks up.

And we can't have it both ways and say the coach is a great motivator, but it's not on the players for going out there asleep too often.

I'm not sure that we all agree though because typically during the trade period there is a strong push back when it's pointed out we should be linked to KPP or ruckman. Even suggesting we needed a short term replacement for the Bruce injury wasn't regarded as a priority.
Once the season starts and gaps in the depth of those key positions starts to appear the conversation moves towards that the list is lacking.

Bevo the coach is not the problem and while Clarkson say's he's not tactically great Clarko did what he could to undermine the way we used the 3rd man up tactic early in Bevo's coaching career that caught many clubs by surprise.

We are under performing to the quality of our list and that is on the club not just Bevo to sort out what we need to do to right the ship.