Sharp Axes

[anfo27]

Re: Sharp Axes

I've said it before but Bevo benefitted off of BMacs rigid defence first development. Could come straight in & release the shackles & the players just played. We were tough & were never out of a contest. As the years have gone by its seems to me that Bevo is an ordinary defensive minded coach. We've gotten worse defensively as the years go by & also softer. We had alot of tough hombre's in our premiership side.
We either get the right coaches to complement Bevos weaknesses or he needs to go. Any list that has Bontempelli in it is a top4 list & its is being wasted. I would love the club do what the cats did. They saw Selwood & did their best every year to give him a shot at another flag. It has to be all in as long as the Bont is there. If Bont retires with one flag to his name, it would be a fail.

[azabob]

Re: Sharp Axes

Going to put some caveats here because the topic is unpleasant and previous iterations of the discussion across different platforms I?ve felt haven?t always been respectful between posters.

My question, I suppose is, at what point are you going to step across from backing, to sacking Bevo? If at all?

SoS do you want an experienced coach or a rookie coach to take over?

[angelopetraglia]

Re: Sharp Axes

I've said it before but Bevo benefitted off of BMacs rigid defence first development. Could come straight in & release the shackles & the players just played. We were tough & were never out of a contest. As the years have gone by its seems to me that Bevo is an ordinary defensive minded coach. We've gotten worse defensively as the years go by & also softer. We had alot of tough hombre's in our premiership side.
We either get the right coaches to complement Bevos weaknesses or he needs to go. Any list that has Bontempelli in it is a top4 list & its is being wasted. I would love the club do what the cats did. They saw Selwood & did their best every year to give him a shot at another flag. It has to be all in as long as the Bont is there. If Bont retires with one flag to his name, it would be a fail.

Many good points here.

But I can't agree with any side with Bont is a top four side. The AFL isn't the NBA.

[1eyedog]

Re: Sharp Axes

Did Judd even play finals at Carlton?

[azabob]

Re: Sharp Axes

Did Judd even play finals at Carlton?

He played a few finals, why are you asking that?

[jeemak]

Re: Sharp Axes

Did Judd even play finals at Carlton?

He played in their last finals win over Richmond in 2013.

[jeemak]

Re: Sharp Axes

He played a few finals, why are you asking that?

Yeah, why are you asking that 1ED? Huh?

[1eyedog]

Re: Sharp Axes

He played a few finals, why are you asking that?

I'm just trying to gauge whether having a top 3 player in the comp who is also a great captain makes it more likely you play finals.

Paddy Cripps is a better example I think where you've got an inspirational leader and great player but you're still starved of team success.

[D Mitchell]

Re: Sharp Axes

I've said it before but Bevo benefitted off of BMacs rigid defence first development. Could come straight in & release the shackles & the players just played. We were tough & were never out of a contest. As the years have gone by its seems to me that Bevo is an ordinary defensive minded coach. We've gotten worse defensively as the years go by & also softer. We had alot of tough hombre's in our premiership side.
We either get the right coaches to complement Bevos weaknesses or he needs to go. Any list that has Bontempelli in it is a top4 list & its is being wasted. I would love the club do what the cats did. They saw Selwood & did their best every year to give him a shot at another flag. It has to be all in as long as the Bont is there. If Bont retires with one flag to his name, it would be a fail.

Adding to bolded bits, McCartney's mantra was that players must be able to win their own ball. After the Grand Final, a mate of mine who has had extensive coaching experience of senior teams in the country made that observation about the team, they could all win their own ball. Now players give up after one effort, fail to chase their opponent who has won the ball, not close in quickly on the opposition player looking to give it off or run around waving their arms then glaring at the team mate who did win the ball. That value has disappeared.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Sharp Axes

He played in their last finals win over Richmond in 2013.

The year they didn't make the finals and took Essendon's spot.
Richmond were such a laughing stock back then, beaten in the finals by ninth!

[Bornadog]

Re: Sharp Axes

I've said it before but Bevo benefitted off of BMacs rigid defence first development. Could come straight in & release the shackles & the players just played. We were tough & were never out of a contest.

I have to totally disagree with your assessment. BMACC may have had the matra the we must win cont poss, but under Rocket we were the top 3 team in contested possession in all of the years he coached us. BMACC taught nothing new.
Under BMACC we were lucky to kick a goal - one of the worst coaches I have seen at the club, along with Rhodes, and Royce Hart.

[Mofra]

Re: Sharp Axes

I'm just trying to gauge whether having a top 3 player in the comp who is also a great captain makes it more likely you play finals.

Paddy Cripps is a better example I think where you've got an inspirational leader and great player but you're still starved of team success.

Bobby Skilton never played a final did he?

Team > individual. The best team defence we're ever rolled out onto the paddock was made up rookies & cast-offs (2016 finals side).

I worry we're falling for the 'saviour' fallacy.
Bont will save us.
Naughts will save us.
A new coach will save us.

We went through this with Grant. Then Murph. It didn't work.

It's far more likely that 22 contributions on the paddock will improve us more than a superhuman effort from one individual.

[Bornadog]

Re: Sharp Axes

Bobby Skilton never played a final did he?

Team > individual. The best team defence we're ever rolled out onto the paddock was made up rookies & cast-offs (2016 finals side).

I worry we're falling for the 'saviour' fallacy.
Bont will save us.
Naughts will save us.
A new coach will save us.

We went through this with Grant. Then Murph. It didn't work.

It's far more likely that 22 contributions on the paddock will improve us more than a superhuman effort from one individual.

This is where the coach comes in. He has to get the players to play as a team. That is why Collingwood is so good, it is a team effort.

Our issue is errors, errors, decision making that costs us games.

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: Sharp Axes

This is where the coach comes in. He has to get the players to play as a team. That is why Collingwood is so good, it is a team effort.

Our issue is errors, errors, decision making that costs us games.

So you are saying it is the coach who makes Collingwood play as a team.

Why then is Bevo not responsible for what isn't happening for us

[Bornadog]

Re: Sharp Axes

So you are saying it is the coach who makes Collingwood play as a team.

Why then is Bevo not responsible for what isn't happening for us

Of course Bevo has responsibility. He has to make it happen.

9 Years - Finals in 2015, 16, 19,20, 21, 22 and hopefully 23, including 2 GF, Premiership