3 things learned from Rd5 2023

[Grantysghost]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

If you are happy a player can record DE 48.6% - then fine with me.

The point of this discussion was why I didn't have a go at Bont for his Turnovers. My answer was, Bont while turning over the ball alot against Lions I think, also influenced the win and did a lot more.

No big deal we move on.

Fair enough.

Treloar's stats stack up ok :


-2 score launches (ranked eq 2)
-8 clearances (ranked 2)
-400 + metres gained (ranked 9)
-10 defensive half pressure acts (ranked 6)
-27 pressure acts total (ranked 1)
-35 touches ranked 1 (16 contested ranked 2)
-14 ground ball gets (ranked 1)
-17 effective disposals (ranked 6) **he must've nailed all his hand balls**

The not so good :

- 11 turnovers ( ranked 1 but 4 less than Bont's record )
- 14.3 % kick efficiency (that might be a world record ranked last and speaks to your point)

Actually his season kicking efficiency is 36.4 percent very very low.

For comparison Bont is at 65.6, Macrae 66.7, Libba 71.2

Wines for PA is lower at 35.4

Might indicate how many contested possessions he's getting compared to other years. Should I look that up....ok.

He's going at 12.3 / game more than Libba at 11.4.

Last season he was at 8.5 and his kicking efficiency was 58.6 %

Ok i need to do work now.

Also the score in this game was almost the same as the Freo final.

73-60 v Freo
70-56 v Port

Not sure why I put that there.

[Dogs 24/7]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

We have a worrying trend from our wins that translated into the Port game.
We can't play 'easy'. Everything we do is laboured - kicking goals, moving the ball, clearances.

When we beat Richmond, we smashed them in most key measures and still only won by a kick.

Until we can find 'easy' connection between our backs, mids then forwards we're always going to be vulnerable to teams making a late charge. Then consider the issues with our fitness/run (as noted by comments regarding other clubs doing more running than us during pre-season)

Spot on. We have the talent but for whatever reason we often come up short in the critical times in games. We have to ask question like has going to Skinner and our lack on more grinding running sessions played a role in those clutch moments and failed us.

[Scorlibo]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

Spot on. We have the talent but for whatever reason we often come up short in the critical times in games. We have to ask question like has going to Skinner and our lack on more grinding running sessions played a role in those clutch moments and failed us.

Personally I find this revelation that we only do running within the context of match simulations and ball drills very concerning, I can't stop thinking about it. Mostly because every week we're second to the loose ball and getting beaten on the spread. But also because everything I know about how to improve VO2 max contradicts that approach. Targeted training at the edge of capability (max heart rate) is how you improve. To an extent training ball skills and training VO2 max are incompatible, if you're coordinated enough to train ball skills then you're not at the point of utter exhaustion. Indeed we don't want our players to be hitting their max heart rate in a game situation.

Now at the end of the day I'm just an amateur runner, and the people in charge of our performance program are professionals. I simply hope we're taking this aspect of performance seriously. Cardio fitness can influence every aspect of play, and if we're even 5% off the competition then that's going to have an outsized impact on performance.

[GVGjr]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

It's not quite right that we don't do straight running but we certainly do more of it in our various drills at Skinner. Perhaps we need a bit more of it but the coaches set up all the drills to keep the players working hard and minimise any flat spots.

[Scorlibo]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

It's not quite right that we don't do straight running but we certainly do more of it in our various drills at Skinner. Perhaps we need a bit more of it but the coaches set up all the drills to keep the players working hard and minimise any flat spots.

When you say straight running, do mean 400m sprints, 2km time trials and the like, or shorter distance sprints?

[GVGjr]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

When you say straight running, do mean 400m sprints, 2km time trials and the like, or shorter distance sprints?

We do a bit of sprint and speed development work but in previous years you would often see more beep test or distance running.
The MAS (maximum aerobic speed) test was just a one off from what I have seen and you could see the players reaching their limits.

Most of the running work is done during the various drills which is what Bevo eluded to in response to Dunkleys comments.
The coaches really do endeavour to keep the guys working hard in the preseason.

Perhaps it requires a tweak here and there to get some longer runs in but the sports science guys do seem to be monitoring players work rates.
I recall a couple of months back them having a chat to Busslinger because he had completed his schedule but he was keen to do some more running with the rehab boys.

[Bornadog]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

One additional learning:

I learnt tackling a player is ok from knees (including knee) and above. I even looked up the rule. When I played school boy stuff, tackling was from hips up.

[Scorlibo]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

We do a bit of sprint and speed development work but in previous years you would often see more beep test or distance running.
The MAS (maximum aerobic speed) test was just a one off from what I have seen and you could see the players reaching their limits.

Most of the running work is done during the various drills which is what Bevo eluded to in response to Dunkleys comments.
The coaches really do endeavour to keep the guys working hard in the preseason.

Perhaps it requires a tweak here and there to get some longer runs in but the sports science guys do seem to be monitoring players work rates.
I recall a couple of months back them having a chat to Busslinger because he had completed his schedule but he was keen to do some more running with the rehab boys.

Cheers.

To be clear, I'm not criticising the work ethic of the players, or the intent/professionalism of the coaches and sports science staff. Just questioning whether this is an area that we're prioritising as a collective. Trying to get that cardio workload in primarily during ball drills sounds to me like we're trying to kill two birds with one stone, and other clubs clearly take a more targeted approach. Meanwhile out on the field it looks as if we're not covering the ground as well as our opposition week to week. It's difficult to assess because it can always be a positioning and running patterns issue, but that's my read.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

I have sat on this one for a couple of days and based on feedback from friends and colleagues they dont rate our ability that highly.
The consensus seems to be if teams are in a close contest with us we dont always fight it out. Saints supporters thought we were in a position a couple of times to get back into the game but a lack of desire cost us.

I am not sure it is a lack of desire but rather a lack of depth in talent. Our forward line apart from Weightman kicked two goals between them with one each to Hannan and Naughton. Our other 2 goalkickers being English and Bont. We have lacked a second ruck man for the past 4-5 years to support Tim English and recruited Lobb who has been very disappointing. Sweet regularly gets 40-50 hit outs in the VFL and continues to be overlooked.
Naughton gets too crowded at FF and should be played at Centre half forward. Our inability to recruit small forwards who kick goals is a huge concern. I am still to be convinced that both O?Brien and Keath are good enough to be second string key defenders to Liam Jones
who has been very good at full back.
Apart from Treloar Richards and Bailey Dale their is a lack of genuine leg speed in the team.
Teams like St Kilda and Essendon have gone past us this year. Port Adelaide is another much improved team this year, having recently defeated Sydney in Sydney and the WB.
I also worry about the depth in our Match Committee following the departures of King and Hansen and disappointed to see two quality
former Premiership players in Dale Morris at Brisbane plus Matthew Boyd at Fremantle where Robert Murphy is also involved.



.

[D Mitchell]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

Personally I find this revelation that we only do running within the context of match simulations and ball drills very concerning, I can't stop thinking about it. Mostly because every week we're second to the loose ball and getting beaten on the spread. But also because everything I know about how to improve VO2 max contradicts that approach. Targeted training at the edge of capability (max heart rate) is how you improve. To an extent training ball skills and training VO2 max are incompatible, if you're coordinated enough to train ball skills then you're not at the point of utter exhaustion. Indeed we don't want our players to be hitting their max heart rate in a game situation.

Now at the end of the day I'm just an amateur runner, and the people in charge of our performance program are professionals. I simply hope we're taking this aspect of performance seriously. Cardio fitness can influence every aspect of play, and if we're even 5% off the competition then that's going to have an outsized impact on performance.

Bolded bits. First I've heard of this. You may be aware of the doctrine espoused by NZ Athletics coach from the '60s Arthur Lydiard, the coach of Peter Snell, Murray Halberg. John Walker followed his regime. It included a 10 week, 100 miles per week period, designed to build endurance preliminary to performance training, getting miles into the legs was the catchcall. Last century, the convention was no footballs before Xmas. I share your concern.