Why have we lost ground to the Saints?

[G-Mo77]

Re: Why have we lost ground to the Saints?

Even Henry chose them over us.

Only players on their last contract want to come here nowdays.

[GVGjr]

Re: Why have we lost ground to the Saints?

Even Henry chose them over us.

Well that might be a blessing. We wouldn't have the the pick 15 to 25 that apparently Freo wants.

[GVGjr]

Re: Why have we lost ground to the Saints?

Only players on their last contract want to come here nowdays.

In terms of higher profile players that's been one of our challenges for a long while.

[jazzadogs]

Re: Why have we lost ground to the Saints?

I think it's a fair assumption that a few teams jumped ahead of us in the fitness stakes and the niggling injuries we suffered in the preseason training on a harder than ideal surface wouldn't have helped us to have a fast start for the season.
The elite surface of the upgraded WO will be welcomed by the players.

I've seen this a few times but... Nobody has actually trained on it yet? How do we know it's elite? Wasn't Skinner upgraded to be 'elite' as well?

[ledge]

Re: Why have we lost ground to the Saints?

I've seen this a few times but... Nobody has actually trained on it yet? How do we know it's elite? Wasn't Skinner upgraded to be 'elite' as well?

We went back to training on it the last few weeks I believe.
Skinner upgrade was not elite it was just updated as in ground surface and a running track around it but a cricket club plays there in summer so I would suggest that was the reason for the hardness in the middle.

[GVGjr]

Re: Why have we lost ground to the Saints?

I've seen this a few times but... Nobody has actually trained on it yet? How do we know it's elite? Wasn't Skinner upgraded to be 'elite' as well?

Skinner Reserve is a decent facility but far from elite.
The surface was very hard and contributed to a number of niggling injuries. It only started to improve after Xmas and the another step forward in mid Feb. The players were concerned with how firm the surface was from the early days.
We started training back on the new WO surface in April I think and it was welcomed by the players.

[jazzadogs]

Re: Why have we lost ground to the Saints?

Thanks, I thought the whole place was still under construction and didn't realise they were training on it already.

[GVGjr]

Re: Why have we lost ground to the Saints?

Thanks, I thought the whole place was still under construction and didn't realise they were training on it already.

You're mostly right, it's still a construction site but the admin area and the player gym are accessible as is access to the new and improved playing surface. The AFLW team can train there as well.

[Sedat]

Re: Why have we lost ground to the Saints?

They won one more game than us - hardly went pass us

That's literally the definition of going past us. Going on that metric, so have Carlton and so have GWS. Port as well.

We have so much work to do in many aspects of our footy dept operations just to hold our ground, let alone climb back into contention after 2 years of sub-par output.

[GVGjr]

Re: Why have we lost ground to the Saints?

That's the literally definition of going past us. Going on that metric, so have Carlton and so have GWS. Port as well.

We have so much work to do in many aspects of our footy dept operations just to hold our ground, let alone climb back into contention after 2 years of sub-par output.

We won one more game than the Saints in 2022 and one less than them this year.
It might be viewed as just a two game turnaround but I really don't rate their playing list so I was more or less hoping to get some ideas on why we weren't a clearly better team this year.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Re: Why have we lost ground to the Saints?

Remember the beat us by 50 pts or so?

[Ozza]

Re: Why have we lost ground to the Saints?

The saints outperformed us because they are far better coached than we are.

We have a miles better list, a lot more talent - but we are easy to play against. Teams know that they just need to sweat on us making a mistake and then they can score easily out the back. They know we will be over represented at the contest, so they can control the set up behind the ball. We are really really easy to play against.

Like him or loathe him - Ross Lyon teams are hard to play against. I don't think an MCG final did them any favours given they barely play there, and this stretched their team defense yesterday - but throughout the year, they were pretty hard to move the ball against. Whereas we are always on a knife's edge - even when attacking, if we make a disposal error inside our F50, the ball just springs out and the defenders are vulnerable.

They've met and exceeded us this year because they have a far superior game plan.

[jazzadogs]

Re: Why have we lost ground to the Saints?

Remember the beat us by 50 pts or so?

And I mean...this is the difference. If we won that game, then at the end of the season we're the team who has won one more game.

Looking at pure results, they started the season hot, we started terribly. Our middle of the year was miles better than theirs. They snuck in to finals ahead of us, and then got smacked around by GWS. On pure results, it's not THAT significant.

But as G and others have said, when you factor in experience, talent and injuries we underperformed and they over performed.

They had young players (NWM, Owens in particular) who played above their level and then a few older guys who had career best seasons (Wilkie, Marshall, Wood). They also had some solid role players who had a clear understanding of their role - Butler as a pressure forward was elite for tackles inside 50, Hill on the wing was elite for metres gained, Caminiti came in off no pre season and was elite for forward pressure as a tall forward.

They had a clear and consistent game plan which the players seemed to understand. It was not always pretty (although sometimes it was very entertaining!) but it was very effective.

[Bornadog]

Re: Why have we lost ground to the Saints?

That's literally the definition of going past us. Going on that metric, so have Carlton and so have GWS. Port as well.

We have so much work to do in many aspects of our footy dept operations just to hold our ground, let alone climb back into contention after 2 years of sub-par output.

Spin it any way you want, one game is one game. GWS belted them on Saturday.

I really don't rate Saints at all.

[mjp]

Re: Why have we lost ground to the Saints?

Here's a "I love Bevo, but..." post.

It's because Lyon has great history (and did it again this year) of:

1/. Building strong relationships with young players and coaxing consistent performances from them.
2/. Defining CLEAR roles for fringe players and getting them to play 'FOR HIM'. (Yep, that's your music Mason Wood).