Tim English - What Price do you pay?

[Go_Dogs]

Re: Tim English - What Price do you pay?

Yesterday’s price, is not today’s price.


He was good last night. Let’s see it continue. Still got no clue where this one lands.

[JanLorMill]

Re: Tim English - What Price do you pay?

Tim's barely played a final as a matured first ruck.

Contracts aren't designed on what's happened with any greater weight versus what might happen. That's the nature of the game. He'll get his million with us and we'll all get on with it.

And to be honest, if he gets it or not is kind of irrelevant to our salary cap. We have 35+ players, a couple hundred unitised by that number is relatively **** all. We need to stop worrying about it and allow our contract in front of Tim or the market determine what he's worth.

We hold the cards.

What does Matured first ruck mean? He never will be getting less matured. He has had 5/6 goes at finals and performed poorly in a few of them. 1 good game last night doesn?t mean now he knows how to play finals.

[jeemak]

Re: Tim English - What Price do you pay?

What does Matured first ruck mean? He never will be getting less matured. He has had 5/6 goes at finals and performed poorly in a few of them. 1 good game last night doesn?t mean now he knows how to play finals.

I did a breakdown of his finals earlier in this thread, it outlined 2022 as Tim being our genuine first ruck choice and what I would consider close to fully matured (having just turned 25 years old). In the final of that year he got worked over by Darcy and Lobb with little assistance (from Cordy and Sam Darcy). It wasn't a great day for him as he wasn't able to offset opposition hit out dominance with his own imprint on the game elsewhere.

His finals prior to that were either in mixed roles in lieu of not having Josh Bruce in the side or against more experienced/ mature rucks as a 23 year old (which to me was on us, not him - noting that he's physically had to come from a long way back).

If you are wanting Tim to be a dominant hit out ruck and think that's what should drive whatever value his contract should be, then that's OK. I can't imagine that's what is driving his value one way or another in the minds of our list managers or the market more generally.

Last night it all came together for him and if his next few weeks are good, and we play finals and he performs well, then I can guarantee you the market will be very interested again and his market value with surge.

[GVGjr]

Re: Tim English - What Price do you pay?

A few weeks back there were a few here okay with the notion that if English was to walk we would just slide Lobb into the ruck.
I just wonder that with Lobb's good form down back if it doesn't strengthen Tim's negotiation position with the club? To me it's not as easy now as it might have been 2 or 3 weeks back to let him potentially go.

[jeemak]

Re: Tim English - What Price do you pay?

A few weeks back there were a few here okay with the notion that if English was to walk we would just slide Lobb into the ruck.
I just wonder that with Lobb's good form down back if it doesn't strengthen Tim's negotiation position with the club? To me it's not as easy now as it might have been 2 or 3 weeks back to let him potentially go.

The only leverage Tim has is if he continues to play well and other parties show strong interest. Good form may entice us to improve our offer, though I doubt we will unless a genuine alternative in the market presents itself.

Lobb will never be a first ruck, and I don't think relying on him as one in Tim's absence was ever going to be realistic if Tim decided to leave.

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: Tim English - What Price do you pay?

A few weeks back there were a few here okay with the notion that if English was to walk we would just slide Lobb into the ruck.
I just wonder that with Lobb's good form down back if it doesn't strengthen Tim's negotiation position with the club? To me it's not as easy now as it might have been 2 or 3 weeks back to let him potentially go.

I don't believe the form of Lobby in defence has any bearing on the value for Tim.
Tim can show his value by producing quality against the best.
The game against Grundy gives him an opportunity.

[JanLorMill]

Re: Tim English - What Price do you pay?

I did a breakdown of his finals earlier in this thread, it outlined 2022 as Tim being our genuine first ruck choice and what I would consider close to fully matured (having just turned 25 years old). In the final of that year he got worked over by Darcy and Lobb with little assistance (from Cordy and Sam Darcy). It wasn't a great day for him as he wasn't able to offset opposition hit out dominance with his own imprint on the game elsewhere.

His finals prior to that were either in mixed roles in lieu of not having Josh Bruce in the side or against more experienced/ mature rucks as a 23 year old (which to me was on us, not him - noting that he's physically had to come from a long way back).

If you are wanting Tim to be a dominant hit out ruck and think that's what should drive whatever value his contract should be, then that's OK. I can't imagine that's what is driving his value one way or another in the minds of our list managers or the market more generally.

Last night it all came together for him and if his next few weeks are good, and we play finals and he performs well, then I can guarantee you the market will be very interested again and his market value with surge.

That’s long excuse but you have forgotten Jackson was younger when dominated English second half of the 21 gf. Sean Darcy was the same age too
Who mentioned dominating hit outs? I want him to impose himself like all good rucks do, not be pushed out the way and at least half the contests.
He beat Blicavs on Saturday apart from being old now has never really been a top ruck but I admit it was a good performance. That’s 1 game.

[JanLorMill]

Re: Tim English - What Price do you pay?

The only leverage Tim has is if he continues to play well and other parties show strong interest. Good form may entice us to improve our offer, though I doubt we will unless a genuine alternative in the market presents itself.

Lobb will never be a first ruck, and I don't think relying on him as one in Tim's absence was ever going to be realistic if Tim decided to leave.

On Saturday Bevo said that Lobb will play where appropriate, Defence forward ruck or vfl. I think Lobb said something similar.
We played a majority of 5 years without a good first ruck yet you believe Lobb can’t do it? Darcy is coming fast anyway. Also Lobb ain’t leaving with 2 years left on his contract unless it’s very favourable to us.

[GVGjr]

Re: Tim English - What Price do you pay?

The only leverage Tim has is if he continues to play well and other parties show strong interest. Good form may entice us to improve our offer, though I doubt we will unless a genuine alternative in the market presents itself.

Lobb will never be a first ruck, and I don't think relying on him as one in Tim's absence was ever going to be realistic if Tim decided to leave.

I agree that Lobb shouldn't have been talked about as a genuine first ruck for any length of time but now that he has found some form as a defender I just feel keeping English in the ruck and minimizing the chance of moving Lobb into other roles as we might have considered solves some problems for us. English has some flaws but he fits into a style that the coaches are comfortable with so the odds of him staying have improved but I now don't think we should be considering Lobb as his potential replacement.
I get that it all depends on what other clubs might show some interest in him but Lobb should not be in the debate of who might replace him.

[Bornadog]

Re: Tim English - What Price do you pay?

I agree that Lobb shouldn't have been talked about as a genuine first ruck for any length of time but now that he has found some form as a defender I just feel keeping English in the ruck and minimizing the chance of moving Lobb into other roles as we might have considered solves some problems for us. English has some flaws but he fits into a style that the coaches are comfortable with so the odds of him staying have improved but I now don't think we should be considering Lobb as his potential replacement.
I get that it all depends on what other clubs might show some interest in him but Lobb should not be in the debate of who might replace him.

Agree, and at the same time, Darcy is still a couple of years away from being a first ruck.

[Hotdog60]

Re: Tim English - What Price do you pay?

Darcy is coming on leaps and bounds and I would say beats English as a ruck forward although Sam is more a forward ruck.
Tim has improved his game a lot over the last couple of weeks and I now if that becomes the norm I really want Tim to stay.
Lobb and to a lesser stent Kamis only become a break glass scenario.

[GVGjr]

Re: Tim English - What Price do you pay?

Agree, and at the same time, Darcy is still a couple of years away from being a first ruck.

Darcy is just tall at the moment and at best he halves contests when he's in the ruck. While he's proven to be developing quickly a 2 year expectation of him being a ruckman is probably right. Based on what I've seen so far I'd still prefer him to be forward ruck combo player.

[Ozza]

Re: Tim English - What Price do you pay?

My view on English from the cats game is that he just delivered what you would expect against a team without a recognised ruckman.

Tim hasn't taken too many scalps this year. At this point in his career you would hope he would be halving or winning some duals against the best ruckman, and dominating the less experienced rucks.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Tim English - What Price do you pay?

I'm a little surprised people are noticing Tim folding back this week. He's been doing that pretty regularly this season.

I've isolated him at games and watched his work rate, he's a very good player. I don't get the angst.

I understand people want more bash and crash; that's pissing into the wind as it's not his style.

[Ozza]

Re: Tim English - What Price do you pay?

I'm a little surprised people are noticing Tim folding back this week. He's been doing that pretty regularly this season.

I've isolated him at games and watched his work rate, he's a very good player. I don't get the angst.

I understand people want more bash and crash; that's pissing into the wind as it's not his style.

I should clarify that my commentary was based on having high expectations for him. Agree he is a very good player. But if the conversation is about whether we are willing to pay a 7 figure salary for him, then it is only right to also expect a lot from him performance wise.

Personally, I'm not paying a million for a ruckman. That doesn't mean I'd want him to leave, but there has to be a limit for everyone. (except Bont).