If we lose next week, is Eade in trouble?

[Mantis]

Re: If we lose next week, is Eade in trouble?

For sure.

I'd get rid of MacDougall, Lynch, Street, Wight and O'Shea (perhaps rookie if his attitudes right). Ray too if he wants to go.

That's 6. Our 7th round pick will be in the 70's, there's no point.

And your fixing the problem that occured on Friday how??

[Sedat]

Re: If we lose next week, is Eade in trouble?

That's 6. Our 7th round pick will be in the 70's, there's no point.

The likes of Johncock, Lake, Malceski, Hill and a few others besides were all 60+ draft picks that have had solid careers to date or are emerging as fine players - occasionally some gold can be mined from a long way back in the draft. Failing that, we could always see what is transpiring in the PSD. Irrespective, the 7th round pick will only materialise on the assumption that Ray goes and O'Shea is rookied. Eagle is not going to get any better so the opportunity cost is low but the potential yield is also low. So do you persist with a player that only performs once every 5 weeks to the necessary standard (and never in a game of major significance) or give valuable game time to the Ward's, Stack's, Reid's, etc.. to fast-track their development, whilst at the same time opening up a spot at Willy for the 7th rounder?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: If we lose next week, is Eade in trouble?

And your fixing the problem that occured on Friday how??

The first thing that I'm not going to do is jump up and down based on that performance.

At this stage we aren't as good as Hawthorn or Geelong, we can carry on about not accepting mediocrity if we want but it won't help.

We get rid of deadwood (Eagleton may be included in this, but there's worse than him on the list) and we draft more kids.

We can't trade for a KPP because they so rarely get traded, and when they do they cost plenty, especially when everyone knows you're desperate for one. We also don't have so many players with high trade value that we can afford to lose.

We talk about trading a midfielder for a KPP but I'd argue we're light on for quality midfielders as well. It sure looked like it Friday night.

We might not win the premiership next year either, but we'll put our best team on the park and see how we go. No-one picked us for top 4 this year, if we keep improving we might surprise a few next year as well.

[Missing Dog]

Re: If we lose next week, is Eade in trouble?

You mean Bomber Thompson's "back yourself, run and carry" game plan? Geelong take off at every opportunity, regardless of where their teammates are. Then they give it off anyway and if the bloke recieving it is in trouble, he gives it off too. They work so hard for each other there's always someone there to help. Eventually get free, if they don't they wear it and do it again next time they get the ball.

The only sure way to fail is to not take risks.

I agree totally with your analysis of how Geelong do it. The difference with how we do it is :

1. Geelong 80% of the time don't get caught, and we get caught at least 50% of the time eg Griffen, Cooney, Lake yes Lake

2. Geelong players stand up better in the tackles

3. when they get caught Geelong players have one or two and sometimes three team mates as options to dish off to

4. Geelong has clear targets up forward that lead and mark overhead cleanly so the guy doing the run and carry has a clear purpose. how many times do you see or run and carr guy with nowhere to go, or no-one to kick to?

[Mantis]

Re: If we lose next week, is Eade in trouble?

The first thing that I'm not going to do is jump up and down based on that performance.

At this stage we aren't as good as Hawthorn or Geelong, we can carry on about not accepting mediocrity if we want but it won't help.

We get rid of deadwood (Eagleton may be included in this, but there's worse than him on the list) and we draft more kids.

We can't trade for a KPP because they so rarely get traded, and when they do they cost plenty, especially when everyone knows you're desperate for one. We also don't have so many players with high trade value that we can afford to lose.

We talk about trading a midfielder for a KPP but I'd argue we're light on for quality midfielders as well. It sure looked like it Friday night.

We might not win the premiership next year either, but we'll put our best team on the park and see how we go. No-one picked us for top 4 this year, if we keep improving we might surprise a few next year as well.

I agree with much of this.

I am realistic to know where we are at, hey I wasn't expecting to win on Friday, I even predicted it, but I didn't expect that. We had been focusing on that game for the best part of 6 weeks and that was the best we could come up with both tactically and performance wise?

To many of our experienced player's don't perform when it counts, it's as simple as that. Our leadership group don't lead. My best 5 player's on Friday night contained just one of this 'special' group, and that just isn't good enough.

[Missing Dog]

Re: If we lose next week, is Eade in trouble?

I've got a bit of catching up to go but there is a bit in this thread that is total bollocks, so I'll respond to them one at a time (by no means am I saying that only the posts I'm responding to are bollocks because there are too many to reply to them all).




Lance Franklin and Cameron Wight are athletes.
Greg Williams and Damian Peverill are footballers.

I suggest we're better off with good players rather than only considering them because of their type.

Athletes versus footballers is a hot topic in other codes: the Olyroos mens under 23 team was widely criticised for having players that were athletes first and soccer players second, with limited skills and knowledge but great aerobic, speed and strength attributes. maybe we can learn from this because the Olyroos were the crappiest team at the Olympics.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: If we lose next week, is Eade in trouble?

I agree totally with your analysis of how Geelong do it. The difference with how we do it is :

1. Geelong 80% of the time don't get caught, and we get caught at least 50% of the time eg Griffen, Cooney, Lake yes Lake

2. Geelong players stand up better in the tackles

3. when they get caught Geelong players have one or two and sometimes three team mates as options to dish off to

4. Geelong has clear targets up forward that lead and mark overhead cleanly so the guy doing the run and carry has a clear purpose. how many times do you see or run and carr guy with nowhere to go, or no-one to kick to?

So there's nothing wrong with the gameplan, Geelong just do it better than everyone else.

[The Underdog]

Re: If we lose next week, is Eade in trouble?

I agree totally with your analysis of how Geelong do it. The difference with how we do it is :

1. Geelong 80% of the time don't get caught, and we get caught at least 50% of the time eg Griffen, Cooney, Lake yes Lake

2. Geelong players stand up better in the tackles

Geelong's midfielders are also much stronger in the body than our midfielders.
They win the ball in close and break tackles because they are stronger than their opponents.

3. when they get caught Geelong players have one or two and sometimes three team mates as options to dish off to

4. Geelong has clear targets up forward that lead and mark overhead cleanly so the guy doing the run and carry has a clear purpose. how many times do you see or run and carr guy with nowhere to go, or no-one to kick to?

Geelong always have guys lateral to and forward of the contest so that guys know where to go to under pressure. I agree we didn't provide anywhere near the support we needed to but our guys didn't cope with pressure anywhere near as well as Geelong do. They panicked pure and simple.
I actually thought too often we ignored an early lead and after that there was nothing left to go to. Our indecision from guys running with the ball was an endemic problem and has been for about 8 weeks. Only Griffen was decisive and clean with the ball on the run on Friday night and was our best player by a mile.

[Mantis]

Re: If we lose next week, is Eade in trouble?

Geelong's midfielders are also much stronger in the body than our midfielders.
They win the ball in close and break tackles because they are stronger than their opponents.

How are you judging this?

On height and weight here is a bit of a comparison of what I think are the 5 main midfielder's of the Bulldogs and Geelong.

Us:

Boyd - 184cm - 88kg
Cooney - 186cm - 90kg
Cross - 187cm - 86kg
Griffen - 188cm - 86kg
Giansiracusa - 182cm - 83kg

Them:

Jnr - 182cm - 88kg
Bartel - 187cm (surprised me) - 88kg
Corey - 191cm - 88kg
Ling - 189cm - 94kg
Selwood - 182cm - 83kg

Really not a massive difference when you look at it that way. The main thing I feel is that all of these player's are confident that they will break the tackle, if they don't they will have a player to give the ball off to anyway.

[Missing Dog]

Re: If we lose next week, is Eade in trouble?

Eagleton - I'm no Eagle fan but what would be gained by forcing him to retire? Pick up a kid with pick 78 and delist him after 2 years? He lives or dies next year on merit - if he deserves a game he plays, if he doesn't he plays VFL. Next year would probably see him out you would think.

Callan - perhaps. Worth another year and would be contracted anyway.

Welsh - you can't trade a 29 yo at his 3rd club. Besides, he's contracted and is a forward who can mark - we're not exactly snowed under by them.

.

Some people here see Hill as a replacement for Eagle. Well on Friday, Hill concocted a moment of brilliance to get possession, and from 25 out dead in front missed a sitter. Thats not the first time he's done it this year either. Eagle would have buried it, no worries. Eagle gets criticised for not getting the hard balls, and when did Hill last win a 50-50 ball? what's with him going up one handed to mark?

Also griff's ok but eagles not? well lets see: http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-western-bulldogs

have a look at his stats for 08': 21 games 420 possessions 20 per game, 31 goals + goal assists 80 inside 50's, 48 tackles versus griffen 22 games 440 possessions 20 per game, 31 goals+assists, 114 inside 50, 54 tackles. what's the diff? he's done enough to go another year

welsh was a good forward target other than johno so he's worth another year.

have a look at the team stats here http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-western-bulldogs

we are as bad as anyone when it comes to tackles and hit-outs despite the so-called improvement in this area compared to last year. its why geelong hammered us and its why we lost 6 out of the last 8. its a team hardness issue

[Missing Dog]

Re: If we lose next week, is Eade in trouble?

I would sleep easier at night, the bloke gives me nightmares...

Seriously he ain't going to get any better and his best is only on display once or twice every 6 games (and I might be being nice). Play Hill, O'Keefe, Ward, Stack, Wood, anyone in his role, because hopefully they may turn out to be more accomplished player's.

have a look at eagles stats for 08 specially his season highlights. they're on par with griffen

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--nathan-eagleton

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--ryan-griffen

[Missing Dog]

Re: If we lose next week, is Eade in trouble?

How are you judging this?

On height and weight here is a bit of a comparison of what I think are the 5 main midfielder's of the Bulldogs and Geelong.

Us:

Boyd - 184cm - 88kg
Cooney - 186cm - 90kg
Cross - 187cm - 86kg
Griffen - 188cm - 86kg
Giansiracusa - 182cm - 83kg

Them:

Jnr - 182cm - 88kg
Bartel - 187cm (surprised me) - 88kg
Corey - 191cm - 88kg
Ling - 189cm - 94kg
Selwood - 182cm - 83kg

Really not a massive difference when you look at it that way. The main thing I feel is that all of these player's are confident that they will break the tackle, if they don't they will have a player to give the ball off to anyway.

i judge it on the observation that geelong players do-not just beleive they will-break more tackles, stand up better in the tackle and therefore seem to have more time to lay off a pass to a team mate which is nearly always an option.

[Missing Dog]

Re: If we lose next week, is Eade in trouble?

So there's nothing wrong with the gameplan, Geelong just do it better than everyone else.

Well if you can't execute it well, than THAT game plan is not RIGHT for your team

[The Underdog]

Re: If we lose next week, is Eade in trouble?

How are you judging this?

On height and weight here is a bit of a comparison of what I think are the 5 main midfielder's of the Bulldogs and Geelong.

Us:

Boyd - 184cm - 88kg
Cooney - 186cm - 90kg
Cross - 187cm - 86kg
Griffen - 188cm - 86kg
Giansiracusa - 182cm - 83kg

Them:

Jnr - 182cm - 88kg
Bartel - 187cm (surprised me) - 88kg
Corey - 191cm - 88kg
Ling - 189cm - 94kg
Selwood - 182cm - 83kg

Really not a massive difference when you look at it that way. The main thing I feel is that all of these player's are confident that they will break the tackle, if they don't they will have a player to give the ball off to anyway.

I'm judging it off watching them play and the work they do. The weight's might be similiar but Selwood aside, the other 4 are much harder bodies. I can't back it up with stats, but you only really need to look at them to see the difference. Agree also that it is in the way that they use it and in the confidence they have built up but I think there is a definite difference in muscle, just check Ablett and Bartel compared to Boyd and Cross.

[Mantis]

Re: If we lose next week, is Eade in trouble?

have a look at eagles stats for 08 specially his season highlights. they're on par with griffen

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--nathan-eagleton

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/p...--ryan-griffen

I judge Eagleton on how he performs in big games not on possessions which can be the most over-rated tool to use. Seriously who gives a stuff about how many cheap stats one can pick up. He was embarrassing against Hawthorn on Friday night as he was in our last final against West Coast 2 years back.

He is an experienced player who doesn't perform on the big stage. On top of that I couldn't give a stuff how he goes this week, knowing Eagleton he will come out and play a blinder, but it's probably too late knowing that Geelong lie waiting. Last Friday night's game was the most important for our club in a long time and we blew it and Eagleton's performance was one of the reasons why we did, but I admit he certainly wasn't alone.