Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

[Greystache]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

Time to get way off track:

In Brown's last 4 games against us he has averaged 18 disposals, 11 marks and 3 goals. Lake has played on for the bulk of these games.

While Fev has only averaged 2.1 goals per game in his 10 appearances against the Dogs he did kick 6 on Lake in 2008.

One could that Lake's ability to negate a high quality opponent aren't that great and that he is shielded from the guns by Morris. Although in saying that Lake offers a fair bit more to the team with his ability to cut off the opposing teams forward movements.

I guess what I am saying is that is that each of our defenders offers something different and I am sure that if Tom can play close to 22 games this year he will add an extra dimension to our defence.

It's also worth noting in the last 4 seasons Brown has averaged 16 disposals, 8.6 marks, and 3.46 goals a game competition wide. So I wouldn't say Brown has done anything more against us (or Lake) than he has against any other team. Plus Morris isn't really an option to play on the really big key forwards.

Lake offers a lot in terms of cutting off opposition forward 50 entries, but I wouldn't say he's not all that good at negating. If Williams is to really offer the team something, he has to develop the ability to play a purely negating role on the really big opposition forwards in the way Morris does on the slightly smaller one's, leaving Lake free to play a better version of Maxwell’s game. Otherwise he's not really offering us much.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

He'll never be out paced, but if he continually loses his opponent, or runs super fast to the wrong spot, or where he thought the ball may go - he'll look terrible, and be beaten easily by the better forwards around. And this is a fairly regular occurrence.
I think Williams usually gets a fairly easy role, and he's lucky that he's got a bunch of AA defenders around him, including Lake and Morris who really ease the pressure on him. If for instance Williams had to line up on one of Brown or Fev, he'd get slaughtered.
.

Not sure of your use of the word' "fairly" but I refute both these comments.

Yes he has found himself out of position on occasions but regularly? You make it sound like he is hopeless. In my view he is a key to our drive to a Premiership and I'm prepared to back him in.

CHB - a fairly easy role? Not in my book. Cast your mind back to his effort on Franklin in Launceston. Franklin at the time was the most explosive player in the business and Williams outpointed him time and time again. Only a couple of soft goals saved Franklin from absolute embarrassment.

He doesn't need to line up on Brown or Fev because that job is Lake's. Mind you, he has a few mates in the competition who would struggle against Brown and Fev and that is hardly the criteria on which his usefulness to our side should be based.

[Go_Dogs]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

Not sure of your use of the word' "fairly" but I refute both these comments.

Yes he has found himself out of position on occasions but regularly? You make it sound like he is hopeless. In my view he is a key to our drive to a Premiership and I'm prepared to back him in.

CHB - a fairly easy role? Not in my book. Cast your mind back to his effort on Franklin in Launceston. Franklin at the time was the most explosive player in the business and Williams outpointed him time and time again. Only a couple of soft goals saved Franklin from absolute embarrassment.

He doesn't need to line up on Brown or Fev because that job is Lake's. Mind you, he has a few mates in the competition who would struggle against Brown and Fev and that is hardly the criteria on which his usefulness to our side should be based.

Now I'm sounding like I'm anti-Williams, which I'm certainly not.

CHB isn't an easy role, but let's be honest, against most of the better sides - the game in Tassie against the Hawks being one of perhaps a few notable exceptions - Morris and Lake usually take the better key forwards. Hence, Williams is often against the 3rd stringer, ie Taylor Walker, and has often been outpointed by these type of players.

He has also played some rippers, like that day in Tasmania. But that is not the norm (yet) by any stretch.

As you have mentioned, and I have, and Mantis has - his true value at the moment is what he allows us to do with our other match ups. He gives us much more flexibility. Keeping him on the park is crucial, but mainly for that reason, not because he'll dominate over the best key forwards, or even the 2nd best key forwards (although hopefully by years end he'll be able to do that too).

I'm prepared to back him in too, but I'm not prepared to get carried away. Given the recruits and upgrades over the course of the off-season, the club isn't getting carried away either. At his best, he's a good player, but getting that consistency is crucial, and so is continuing to improve his defensive work.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

bit off topic but notice in press that there are suggestions that six players have already signed for gc. Could everitt be one? Clayton has always been a fan and i recall his contract running out this year or next

[mjp]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

Only a couple of soft goals saved Franklin from absolute embarrassment.

Franklin kicked 5 that day and had 11 scoring shots.

[Missing Dog]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

Franklin kicked 5 that day and had 11 scoring shots.

I also recall that we restriced the Hawks to only 35 inside 50's which was almost 20 fewer than their season average, we also won the clearances 36 to 23 and the tackles 57 to 38. Taking those factors into account 11 scoring shots ain't too shabby, no doubt Williams was made to look better by the pressure we applied on the ball carrier further up the ground but it's funny that his game sticks in everyone's mind as one of his better games.

[stefoid]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

bit off topic but notice in press that there are suggestions that six players have already signed for gc. Could everitt be one? Clayton has always been a fan and i recall his contract running out this year or next

already signed? no considering a contract, quite possible.

[Mantis]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

already signed? no considering a contract, quite possible.

He signed a new 2yr contract late last season.

The fact that he had already signed a new contract made his decision that he wanted to be traded a little surprising as we held all the ace's. If we didn't like the trade offered (which is what eventuated) we didn't have to trade him for the sake of it or perhaps risk losing him for nothing which is the case for un-contracted players.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

Franklin kicked 5 that day and had 11 scoring shots.

According to FinalSiren stats he kicked 5 goals 0 behinds which puts a different spin on things. I think you got the wrong game.

We can interpret raw statistics anyway we like. For instance, I can readily assume that on that day almost all forward thrusts went through Franklin but there are no statistics on that. As mentioned earlier, there were some soft goals involved not attributable to any defiency in Williams' play.

Here is a comment from FrediKanoute giving votes in the Marmo on the day -

Pups

1. .....
2. Williams - stats will show Buddy finihsed with 5, but he really only got 2 from beating Williams. Will only get better.

I doubt whether any Woofer watching that game came away anyhing but impressed with Williams and his future.

[stefoid]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

Poor Tom, in a perfect world he would have 70+ games to his name and be developing nicely.

[mjp]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

According to FinalSiren stats he kicked 5 goals 0 behinds which puts a different spin on things. I think you got the wrong game.

We can interpret raw statistics anyway we like.

I doubt whether any Woofer watching that game came away anyhing but impressed with Williams and his future.

Apologies for getting it wrong - 5 goals is 5 goals though right?

Williams played OK that day, but I am just so sick of hearing about one game - when his direct opponent still kicked 5 - as a sign of things to come when there are many more games when he wasn't quite as effective that are conveniently forgotten. I know he is the messiah as a key back, but I would rather go into a big game with Morris fighting out of his weight division than counting on Williams to go toe-to-toe with an opposition superstar forward.

I guess that this will be the year my perception of him changes.

[The Pie Man]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

Apologies for getting it wrong - 5 goals is 5 goals though right?

Williams played OK that day, but I am just so sick of hearing about one game - when his direct opponent still kicked 5 - as a sign of things to come when there are many more games when he wasn't quite as effective that are conveniently forgotten. I know he is the messiah as a key back, but I would rather go into a big game with Morris fighting out of his weight division than counting on Williams to go toe-to-toe with an opposition superstar forward.

I guess that this will be the year my perception of him changes.

How about one piece of play? I decided to tell my family ad nauseam that Skipper could be our FF answer after taking that pack mark against St Kilda in 2008...I limited spruking this annoying bile on WOOF (thankfully) and have since moved on.

As per the OP, I think Everitt looked promising on the weekend. All for guys who can kick straight, and while ES has pointed to some sloppy priors (Ern I think you might be referring to Freo game last year, the Brad Johnson games record game, I believe he went forward late, got a bit of it and proceded to shank a couple) his action etc looked good last Sunday

[mighty_west]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

Poor Tom, in a perfect world he would have 70+ games to his name and be developing nicely.

Couldn't have said it better myself, he cops a bad wrap for a player that wasn't brought up on Aussie rules, to be recruited to fill such an important role in a side.

I remember one bad incident when Trav Cloke simply outsmarted him in a contest, the same game where Cloke kicks zero goals on Tom.

He really needed to get as much game time as possible since being selected in the draft whether it be in the VFL or Bulldogs side, yet injuries have just set him back big time in regards to development footy wise.

As for the topic at hand, Everitt, i have always wanted to see him get game time as a half forward, even though he played under 18's as a defender, he was more a rebounding attacking defender than anything, but at this level, he just gets outbodied far too often, i don't believe he is a natural defender anyway, he really is a utility type, i also see him as an Embley type, could run off a wing, but also run his opponent deep forward at times as well, thats where i would like to see him play.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

Apologies for getting it wrong - 5 goals is 5 goals though right?

Williams played OK that day, but I am just so sick of hearing about one game - when his direct opponent still kicked 5 - as a sign of things to come when there are many more games when he wasn't quite as effective that are conveniently forgotten. I know he is the messiah as a key back, but I would rather go into a big game with Morris fighting out of his weight division than counting on Williams to go toe-to-toe with an opposition superstar forward.

I guess that this will be the year my perception of him changes.

Definitely agree with this.

That Hawthorn game is over hyped. The soft goals came from Williams being out of position once or twice. He showed good signs that day, but his opponent still booted 5 with reduced delivery into the F50.

I think one of Tom's best games came against Brisbane last year. The one where he broke a bone in his foot.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

Franklin kicked 5 that day and had 11 scoring shots.

I was at the ground that day and sitting behind the goals at the northern end so saw plenty of the Williams v Franklin contest and Tom certainly had the better of him on the day.

Two of his goals were soft which Tom had no influence and another goal came when Tom wss resting on the bench.

Franklin could have had plenty more if it wasnt for the v good game played by Williams that day.

However, we have seen very little of that form since and when he played last year he looked lost on several occasions as it is obvious he doesnt came from an AFL background and he has no natural feel for the game. Yes, he can run fast and kick ok but when you are a CHB you also have to be able to read the play and prevent your opponent from marking the ball.

Hopefully he can make all eat a little humble pie this year though.