Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

[chef]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

A few including the last game against Collingwood.

Didn't he spot Johnno(and he kicked the goal that got us 3rd) up with a lovely pass. Not sure about the rest of the game.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

Didn't he spot Johnno(and he kicked the goal that got us 3rd) up with a lovely pass. Not sure about the rest of the game.

A remember a few poor set shots from last year, his kciking from the run was usually good. No problem with his passing.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

Can you be a bit more specific?

Yes last year
The 3.22455454 sec mark of the 2nd quarter. He was 34.24451m from goal on an angle 53deg left from the centre. The weather was 16.58C. Sorry not sure about the atomsopheric pressure though.

My word is not good enough for you? I remember him missing a few set shots. I might be wrong and confused him with someone else but I don't think so.

Thanks the only time your every reply to anything I say is when you think I say something wrong. I should be so lucky

[Mantis]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

Yes last year
The 3.22455454 sec mark of the 2nd quarter. He was 34.24451m from goal on an angle 53deg left from the centre. The weather was 16.58C. Sorry not sure about the atomsopheric pressure though.

My word is not good enough for you? I remember him missing a few set shots. I might be wrong and confused him with someone else but I don't think so.

Thanks the only time your every reply to anything I say is when you think I say something wrong. I should be so lucky

You don't have to take every question that is posed as a personal attack of your opinion.... Take a chill pill.

The feeling I get is that most Bulldogs fans believe Everitt's kicking is one of his strengths. Sure he has isn't 100% reliable in terms of efficiency, but personally I don't think his kicking needs to improve... but he does need to improve other parts of his game.

[mjp]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

I don't know about Eade, but I know Scott Clayton to this day is adamant he drafted Everitt as a forward. He thinks his best position is playing out of the goal square. I can't say I agree with that, but I do agree that the forward line is his go, I think a mobile CHF in the mould of a Riewoldt.

That would be Clayton. Take a u18 defender and make him a forward, any forward projects as a defender...

Everitt played back at u18 level.

[mjp]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

Everitt had a terrific first year but went backwards after that. I went to several training sessions last year and he'd always be in the last few with every running drill. He didn't push himself, his intensity for training and playing was up and down and this reflected on his performances. He identified this as the problem, which is why he's had a fantastic pre-season.

Injuries didn't contribute?

I don't think anyone gives Williams' a free pass, either. Most are pretty aware that he has a whole lot to learn before he can call himself an established senior AFL footballer.

Well, the whole 'he always tries, he is just bad at reading the play' smacks of a free pass to me. He plays as a defender with direct opponent accountability...what play does he need to read? Opponent leads...he just has to go as well. He is put in positions where minimal 'footy smarts' are needed on purpose...

He should never play back IMO. It's a myth that he can play on smalls and talls. He's not a defender at all. For two years they played him on a whole range of talls, mediums and smalls. Even at Williamstown he struggled. Not sure he has the strength and immediate acceleration to keep up with senior forwards.

Disagree. That first season everyone was so impressed with he played back. He is stronger and faster now than he was then.


Look - this all comes off like I hate Williams and love Everitt. The truth is in the middle. I am just tired of Williams being caught off his man and everyone making excuses, yet when Everitt drops off the contest or 'doesn't go' he is soft and lacks intensity. It isn't as simple as all that. We need Tom to cover opposition bigs (on occasion) - I get that. But he has to play BETTER. We need Everitt for his run and carry, versatility and kicking skills.

[Mantis]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

Injuries didn't contribute?

He had glandular fever before xmas last year. Surely that would have taken it's toll on his ability to handle his body being pushed to the limit.

[Go_Dogs]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

Well, the whole 'he always tries, he is just bad at reading the play' smacks of a free pass to me. He plays as a defender with direct opponent accountability...what play does he need to read? Opponent leads...he just has to go as well. He is put in positions where minimal 'footy smarts' are needed on purpose...

I seem to remember both Williams and Everitt getting towelled up by Taylor Walker at different stages in our win at AAMI Stadium last year. Walker is younger than them both, and got metres upon metres of space regularly, so Williams isn't alone in that respect.

I do however agree that Williams needs to start to show some serious improvement. He does do some good things, but he still gets beaten too frequently. Improving the gap between his better and lesser games is a must.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

Injuries didn't contribute?

Well, the whole 'he always tries, he is just bad at reading the play' smacks of a free pass to me. He plays as a defender with direct opponent accountability...what play does he need to read? Opponent leads...he just has to go as well. He is put in positions where minimal 'footy smarts' are needed on purpose...

Injuries did contribute but that was later in the season(s). I recall him running next to Jarrad Grant in all the running drills and thinking 'I know he's capable of more then that'. He didn't push himself enough prior to this year, that's why he ultimately hasn't played many games.

Footy smarts are needed as a defender IMO. It's not as simple as following your man. Defenders often peel off, cover for their team mates and provide attack on the rebound. Williams obviously doesn't do a lot of this, but with all the chopping and changing in today's game, if you can't read the play as a defender you're stuffed. That's why a lot of younger players learn their trade in the back half. It makes them better players be it they become midfielders or forwards later on.

Unfortunately, Williams cannot judge the flight of the ball/reading of the play and has been punished several times because of it. I've been one of his biggest critics and especially after that Collingwood Friday Night game last year.

Disagree. That first season everyone was so impressed with he played back. He is stronger and faster now than he was then.

I'm happy to be corrected but I was sure he played on the wing?

Either way, he's struggled at VFL level in the back half against talls and smalls. I think he can offer far more in the midfield and up forward. His ability to kick two majors on the weekend when we missed so many was a real highlight for mine.

Look - this all comes off like I hate Williams and love Everitt. The truth is in the middle. I am just tired of Williams being caught off his man and everyone making excuses, yet when Everitt drops off the contest or 'doesn't go' he is soft and lacks intensity. It isn't as simple as all that. We need Tom to cover opposition bigs (on occasion) - I get that. But he has to play BETTER. We need Everitt for his run and carry, versatility and kicking skills.

Both are a long way off it at the moment and I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of Williams. It's a big year for both of these players for several reasons. The key for Tom is to keep playing week in and week out. The key for Everitt is to be consistent in his effort. When he is (v Collingwood + this pre-season) he's a completely different player and one that could really trouble sides.

I wouldn't mind seeing Everitt and Hall in the same forward line in two weeks.

[GVGjr]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

Really? I seem to remember him being touted as "a modern day CHB, good runner with good skills" at the time he was drafted.

That's how I remember it.

I don't know if he's been quoted in the press saying it, but he's a family friend and has mentioned several times that's where he thinks Everitt should play.

As mjp mentioned, that would be right up Clayton's alley. He's fairly convincing at being able to sell the benefits of moving a player into a different position to the one he played the majority of his junior football.

That would be Clayton. Take a u18 defender and make him a forward, any forward projects as a defender...

Everitt played back at u18 level.

In his first season Everitt looked to have remarkable poise with his running and especially his skills but to be honest I think his skill level has declined unless he is out by himself. I have seen him turn the ball over all too frequently for Williamstown so it's difficult for me to know how he should best be used.

My gut feel is that he should be a 3rd tall defender but his height and agility means he could play as a 3rd tall forward as well. I'd like to see him played there for at least a good part of the season.
Either way his laconic approach is frustrating to me. He is capable of a lot more than he is currently displaying

[Missing Dog]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

I'm happy to be corrected but I was sure he played on the wing?

Yeah he was played mostly on the wing with a few stints in the backline. I think it was only in the last game or two where he spent a bit of time as a back pocket. He did okay in their, but his poise and ability to get through traffic in the midfield is what everyone was going on about.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

Both are a long way off it at the moment and I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of Williams. It's a big year for both of these players for several reasons. The key for Tom is to keep playing week in and week out. The key for Everitt is to be consistent in his effort. When he is (v Collingwood + this pre-season) he's a completely different player and one that could really trouble sides.

I wouldn't mind seeing Everitt and Hall in the same forward line in two weeks.

If this is the case, we are in trouble because Williams is our first choice CHB, a fairly important position I would have thought.

I think you both underestimate Williams' abilities. He is never going to be outpaced by an opponent while playing CHB for a start. He is fearless, a good tackler and an excellent kick.

Yes, he has much scope for improvement but this doesn't mean he is below standard right now. We all know he needs more games in him and when that happens I believe he will be key figure in our search for success.

[Go_Dogs]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

If this is the case, we are in trouble because Williams is our first choice CHB, a fairly important position I would have thought.

I think you both underestimate Williams' abilities. He is never going to be outpaced by an opponent while playing CHB for a start. He is fearless, a good tackler and an excellent kick.

He'll never be out paced, but if he continually loses his opponent, or runs super fast to the wrong spot, or where he thought the ball may go - he'll look terrible, and be beaten easily by the better forwards around. And this is a fairly regular occurrence.

I think Williams usually gets a fairly easy role, and he's lucky that he's got a bunch of AA defenders around him, including Lake and Morris who really ease the pressure on him. If for instance Williams had to line up on one of Brown or Fev, he'd get slaughtered.

The recent discussions in this thread have probably underestimated him a little, but I think you are severely overstating him based on potential, rather than what we've actually seen to date. Potentially, he's a very good CHB, because he is fast and strong and has can kick (occasionally) but he's a long way off turning that potential into consistent AFL performances. His real value at the moment is what he allows our better, more senior defenders to do, due to him being in the team.

[Mantis]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

I think Williams usually gets a fairly easy role, and he's lucky that he's got a bunch of AA defenders around him, including Lake and Morris who really ease the pressure on him. If for instance Williams had to line up on one of Brown or Fev, he'd get slaughtered.

Time to get way off track:

In Brown's last 4 games against us he has averaged 18 disposals, 11 marks and 3 goals. Lake has played on for the bulk of these games.

While Fev has only averaged 2.1 goals per game in his 10 appearances against the Dogs he did kick 6 on Lake in 2008.

One could that Lake's ability to negate a high quality opponent aren't that great and that he is shielded from the guns by Morris. Although in saying that Lake offers a fair bit more to the team with his ability to cut off the opposing teams forward movements.

I guess what I am saying is that is that each of our defenders offers something different and I am sure that if Tom can play close to 22 games this year he will add an extra dimension to our defence.

[Go_Dogs]

Re: Can Everitt play as a tall forward?

I guess what I am saying is that is that each of our defenders offers something different and I am sure that if Tom can play close to 22 games this year he will add an extra dimension to our defence.

Don't disagree - you conveniently left of the last part of my post where I basically said the same thing