Jarrad Grant

[Mofra]

Re: Jarrad Grant

If Dunstall played Collingwood today then he'd probably end up with his head up Nick Maxwell's arse.

If Dunstall played today Maxwell would be subbed off injured, 5 mintues into the first quarter.

I believe the champions of past eras in general would have adapted to the modern game and still been guns. A Lockett today would still be unstoppable when on song.

[stefoid]

Re: Jarrad Grant

I hear you MJP, but Guido is a veteran and Grant is still coming to grips with AFL footy. Cooney, Boyd and Griffen should be putting the ball in front of leading forwards, thats meat and potatoes stuff.

Fact is with Higgins, Guido, Hall, Johno and Acker out of our forward line, thats a crap load of experience we didnt have last week.

Replace that with the collective number of games for this footy club as forwards of Grant, Sherman, Jones and Minson and theres.. I dont know... 800 games difference in experience there?

Maybe the forward line has to go back to basics before it gets better - lead hard, put the ball in front, kick long to the hotspot, get front and cetnre of contests, etc...

[The Pie Man]

Re: Jarrad Grant

If Dunstall played today Maxwell would be subbed off injured, 5 mintues into the first quarter.

I believe the champions of past eras in general would have adapted to the modern game and still been guns. A Lockett today would still be unstoppable when on song.

I agree with that - thinking of someone like Fevola, who I doubt was as fit or competitive as Dunstall ever was at his peak, and he could still make a contribution early last season.

[Greystache]

Re: Jarrad Grant

Because they'd slide straight into the three opponents filling space in front of them.

Traveling across grass on your knees puts your head at a regrettable height in the era of congested footy. If Dunstall played Collingwood today then he'd probably end up with his head up Nick Maxwell's arse.

Or his face caved in, ala Jonathon Brown round 1.

[Bornadog]

Re: Jarrad Grant

Blame whomever you want to for our current predicament - but the fact remains we are ranked 13th for points for and 3rd for points against...our backs (despite the absence of both Lake and Hargrave) are holding up their end of it. Our mids - say what you will - are working very hard, winning the ball (or tackling) and forcing it forward. Our lack of forward pressure and lack of basic contesting inside 50m IS the problem. Grant needs to get better at the basic art of having a go (he came out of the same draft as Ward) and acting like a player in his 4th year in the system.

Agreed MJP, backline has been excellent but unfortunatelty forward pressure is still a problem. We are ranked 13th in Tackles inside 50, ie an average of 7 per game compared to the leaders around 12.

[Maddog37]

Re: Jarrad Grant

I hate the Hawks with a passion but I love Dunstall. Just a champion. If Mark Lecras can kick 12 and Reimers can kick 8 in a game, imagine what The Chief would do!!!!!!

I just hope that in years to come we will not be trying to make Grant into this type or that type of player. I hope other clubs will be saying "we see him as a Jarrod Grant type".

The kid has something special, just hope he makes the most of his talent.

[stefoid]

Re: Jarrad Grant

Agreed MJP, backline has been excellent but unfortunatelty forward pressure is still a problem. We are ranked 13th in Tackles inside 50, ie an average of 7 per game compared to the leaders around 12.

The ball has got to be in our forward line for someone to lay a tackle there.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Jarrad Grant

Because they'd slide straight into the three opponents filling space in front of them.

Traveling across grass on your knees puts your head at a regrettable height in the era of congested footy. If Dunstall played Collingwood today then he'd probably end up with his head up Nick Maxwell's arse.

Hey Rocket!
mmm. I'm not sure. I'm not convinced. A low kick makes it really hard to punch. Players lead all the time, even today. Jury is still out IMO.

[mjp]

Re: Jarrad Grant

Really?

It represents the 'entire problem'.

Cool.

Here I was just taking the piss a little bit because I found your criticism of a player beating his opponent on the lead to be quite funny, and I stumbled across the entire problem.

Yeah - it is the entire problem. Honestly, who cares if you beat your opponent on a lead if you dont get the ball? Read the rest of the post and have a think about it in the context of a game of football. It is a hard, physical competition and everyone has to take their turn - and yes, even fast leading forwards need to be smart enough to create a contest when the kick isn't perfect (and it rarely is). And hard working mids need to work harder to get us some numbers at the aforementioned contest to ensure we win the footy or halve the contest.

I am not 'taking the piss' or dripping sarcasm. I am telling you what is going wrong with the side right now. The forwards and mids are simply not working hard enough to ensure a contest occurs between 40m and 70m from our attacking goal. You can either agree or disagree - and if you disagree I am happy to listen to your counter...

As for your mocking of the 'entire problem' angle, there is always one primary issue that is either enabling your opponents plan to function or preventing yours from doing the same...this is pretty much true in any competitive situation - and in the AFL on most weeks it is one teams ability to win the contested ball early in a game that determines the final result. That is not our problem right now - we are winning enough of the footy. We are restricting opposiiton scoring...but inside 50's and scoring are both down.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Jarrad Grant

Yeah - it is the entire problem. Honestly, who cares if you beat your opponent on a lead if you dont get the ball? Read the rest of the post and have a think about it in the context of a game of football. It is a hard, physical competition and everyone has to take their turn - and yes, even fast leading forwards need to be smart enough to create a contest when the kick isn't perfect (and it rarely is). And hard working mids need to work harder to get us some numbers at the aforementioned contest to ensure we win the footy or halve the contest.

I am not 'taking the piss' or dripping sarcasm. I am telling you what is going wrong with the side right now. The forwards and mids are simply not working hard enough to ensure a contest occurs between 40m and 70m from our attacking goal. You can either agree or disagree - and if you disagree I am happy to listen to your counter...

As for your mocking of the 'entire problem' angle, there is always one primary issue that is either enabling your opponents plan to function or preventing yours from doing the same...this is pretty much true in any competitive situation - and in the AFL on most weeks it is one teams ability to win the contested ball early in a game that determines the final result. That is not our problem right now - we are winning enough of the footy. We are restricting opposiiton scoring...but inside 50's and scoring are both down.

Regards J.G
What would you say to moving him into the half back role, in order to develop his defensive side / thirst for a contest?
Has his straight up selection as a foward made him a touch complacent, if your observations are correct.

[mjp]

Re: Jarrad Grant

good point. and well written
so what would you do about it, if you were coach?

Step 1: Reset the defensive run.

I would keep Murphy back. That is working. I would add Griffen to the defensive mix to give us an extra runner behind the ball. Maybe Hargrave or Wood could fix this (though Wood has not consistently won enough of the ball previously) but given current personnel, Griffen goes to half-back.

Step 2: Move Cooney and Sherman outside the game.

No more centre square work for these two - line them up outside the square and try and increase our run and carry ability through the midfield...Cooney winning the ball at stoppages is not helping us. Stack moving up a line and playing outside is fine with me as well.

Step 3: Move Cross to the half-forward line.

Cross plays high along with Grant with a lead, lead and lead again instruction. Good hands and high endurance levels. And a committed tackler.

Step 4: Strict instruction. No kicks to a one-on-one contest more than 40m from goal - particularly when it comes to fatside kicks.

We kick it over that contest (out of bounds if we have too) and just try and play containment footy.

Step 5: Stick with DJ. Stick with Addison...but they play FORWARD.

Both have shown a willingness to tackle and chase. Stick them where we need tackling and chasing.

That's it. No stylistic changes...a couple of positional changes and go from there. We are not going that bad.

[The Pie Man]

Re: Jarrad Grant

good point. and well written
so what would you do about it, if you were coach?

mjp noted that 'The forwards and mids are simply not working hard enough to ensure a contest occurs between 40m and 70m from our attacking goal'

I'll never be able to articulate thoughts about footy quite like mjp can, though I imagine the above problem is down to work rate - which Eade has pointed out is a mindset.

What can the coach do about changing players mindset & priorities?

Ross Lyon can be interesting to listen to (sometimes) and on Monday he was talking about Brendon Goddard and how he 'has to keep stacking up the numbers....it's about consistency of effort'

I think it's up to the guys on the park - I remember the first quarter of the 09 prelim, the pressure we applied was immense

[The Pie Man]

Re: Jarrad Grant

You've mentioned moving Cross forward before mjp, and I like the idea - he's normally a solid mark overhead, and his kicks can float slowly towards the sticks all they like, as long as they're straight.

While a committed tackler/hard ball winner, would his lack of pace be an issue?

The idea has merit for me

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Jarrad Grant

Step 1: Reset the defensive run.

I would keep Murphy back. That is working. I would add Griffen to the defensive mix to give us an extra runner behind the ball. Maybe Hargrave or Wood could fix this (though Wood has not consistently won enough of the ball previously) but given current personnel, Griffen goes to half-back.

Step 2: Move Cooney and Sherman outside the game.

No more centre square work for these two - line them up outside the square and try and increase our run and carry ability through the midfield...Cooney winning the ball at stoppages is not helping us. Stack moving up a line and playing outside is fine with me as well.

Step 3: Move Cross to the half-forward line.

Cross plays high along with Grant with a lead, lead and lead again instruction. Good hands and high endurance levels. And a committed tackler.

Step 4: Strict instruction. No kicks to a one-on-one contest more than 40m from goal - particularly when it comes to fatside kicks.

We kick it over that contest (out of bounds if we have too) and just try and play containment footy.

Step 5: Stick with DJ. Stick with Addison...but they play FORWARD.

Both have shown a willingness to tackle and chase. Stick them where we need tackling and chasing.

That's it. No stylistic changes...a couple of positional changes and go from there. We are not going that bad.

Great read MJP
I like the thought of giving Cross a chance as a Milne type goal sneak. Bad analogy I know.
Agree, Coons would be a much better outside player as he's not small and once he picks up momentum, very hard to stop / uses his pace well .

Re one point however, once the opp coach gets clued up re kicking over the contest, they'll employ a sweeper closer to goal to stop it going boundary and will run it out of our f50 quickly.

Tend to think of AFL more like basketball now, where having the ball in your hands counts for everything and you'd never throw a hail mary into the back half of the court in blind hope.
Work it around with short kicks? but you need to be very fast to do that.
Not sure

[mjp]

Re: Jarrad Grant

Re one point however, once the opp coach gets clued up re kicking over the contest, they'll employ a sweeper closer to goal to stop it going boundary and will run it out of our f50 quickly.

Agree...but at the moment the sweeper is outside 50m and killing us...if we can get him back inside 20-25m isn't that a good thing? I know what you are saying but we just have to keep the ball in our forward line for longer...going from kicking to a contest 50m out to kicking to a contest 20m out (and staying skinny side where possible to limit the exit points) is a good thing isn't it?

To the general comments on Cross, I just see his main strengths as endurance and overhead marking. To me, he has more chance to use his endurance running as a continuous leading hff than as an often interchanged mid.