And so it goes.... As usual!

[LostDoggy]

Re: And so it goes.... As usual!

It's not that simple.

If Hahn doesn't miss Williams with a 10 meter kick in the middle of the ground(when he should have handballed) we would have won. There's probably about 1000 things we could have done differently which would have made us win the game.

The difference is, Gia had earned the right to stop, go back, chew the clock, give his team mates a breather, pull his socks up, throw some grass in the air and kick the goal. A leader should understand critical moments in the game and there was none more critical in terms of fatigue levels on his team mates and knowing that the goal would kill St Kilda off.

Sometimes it is as simple as pointing the blame at someone and hoping they learn from it. A skill error is far more forgivable than a blatant poor decision under no pressure from our stand in captain.

[chef]

Re: And so it goes.... As usual!

Sometimes it is as simple as pointing the blame at someone and hoping they learn from it. A skill error is far more forgivable than a blatant poor decision under no pressure from our stand in captain.

I don't agree with that in a team game over 120 minutes. Gia's wasn't the only or worst mistake on the night.

[Bornadog]

Re: And so it goes.... As usual!

The difference is, Gia had earned the right to stop, go back, chew the clock, give his team mates a breather, pull his socks up, throw some grass in the air and kick the goal. A leader should understand critical moments in the game and there was none more critical in terms of fatigue levels on his team mates and knowing that the goal would kill St Kilda off.

Sometimes it is as simple as pointing the blame at someone and hoping they learn from it. A skill error is far more forgivable than a blatant poor decision under no pressure from our stand in captain.

The trouble is, we don't know whether Gia would have kicked it. We do know that Hahns bad pass to Williams resulted in a turnover and an easy goal. Why he decided to go back into the corridor when the entire back half except Milne and Morris had pushed into our forward line. It was a dangerous move and one that needed to be deadly accurate.

[Mantis]

Re: And so it goes.... As usual!

It's not that simple.

If Hahn doesn't miss Williams with a 10 meter kick in the middle of the ground(when he should have handballed) we would have won. There's probably about 1000 things we could have done differently which would have made us win the game.

That piece of play happened very late in the game when we were really under the pump.

The Gia 'stuff up' happened when were still in control of general play and this goal would have taken the margin out to 20+ points and would have iced the game.

[Bornadog]

Re: And so it goes.... As usual!

That piece of play happened very late in the game when we were really under the pump.

The Gia 'stuff up' happened when were still in control of general play and this goal would have taken the margin out to 20+ points and would have iced the game.

if he had of kicked it.

[chef]

Re: And so it goes.... As usual!

That piece of play happened very late in the game when we were really under the pump.

The Gia 'stuff up' happened when were still in control of general play and this goal would have taken the margin out to 20+ points and would have iced the game.

That's just the way I see it. Bornadog seems to have summed up my thoughts perfectly.

Gilbee, Grant, Gia and Higgins all missed goals they should have kicked in the last quarter, I just don't like(or agree with) the idea that one player or one piece of play cost us the whole match.

[LostDoggy]

Re: And so it goes.... As usual!

if he had of kicked it.

He still would of taken time off the clock and given our blokes a breather, a chance to set up and keep the ball locked our forward line a little longer. It's more so his decision to play on rather than if he kicked it is the point I'm trying to make.

By the way, I put my money on him kicking that goal every day of the week.

[Bornadog]

Re: And so it goes.... As usual!

He still would of taken time off the clock and given our blokes a breather, a chance to set up and keep the ball locked our forward line a little longer. It's more so his decision to play on rather than if he kicked it is the point I'm trying to make.

By the way, I put my money on him kicking that goal every day of the week.

Of course that would have been great, and Gia should have had a shot and perhaps put us 20 odd points up. However, that one incident did not lose us the game.

[Mantis]

Re: And so it goes.... As usual!

if he had of kicked it.

He would have been no more than 30m out on a slight angle.

He would have kicked it.

[EasternWest]

Re: And so it goes.... As usual!

now that i've calmed a little bit (only a little ) I can answer this by saying that sometimes we can ice a game. I can think of Brissy last year, Collingwood last year and if I tried harder I could probably think of plenty more. I wish we had last night but i dont think its right to say we cant ice games ever.

If my memory serves me rightly, in the game against the Bears last year they went on a run late in the third and nearly caught us then (I remember not being pleased that we won, but annoyed because we just scraped home after having a commanding lead).

I guess I should have been clearer with what I meant by icing a game because your reference to the Collingwood game is right and it was a good victory, but that had been a fairly close game all throughout.

But what I really mean is why do we not finish teams when we're X amount in front? We seem to get to the point where it could go either way (we squash them, or we let them back in) and it feels like we almost never just put the foot on their throats.

[LostDoggy]

Re: And so it goes.... As usual!

Question: When is it that a player is at fault for losing a game? E.g 5 points down, mark in goal square, siren blows, player goes back and misses from straight in front. Judging by some posters this wouldn't qualify.

If some argue that it can't be Gia, or Hall or Williams or whoever, then what can actually be fixed. What can be identified and prevented (at least) from happening next week or the week after?

When will the responsibility for losing a game be held by the players?

[AndrewP6]

Re: And so it goes.... As usual!

Question: When is it that a player is at fault for losing a game? E.g 5 points down, mark in goal square, siren blows, player goes back and misses from straight in front. Judging by some posters this wouldn't qualify.

If some argue that it can't be Gia, or Hall or Williams or whoever, then what can actually be fixed. What can be identified and prevented (at least) from happening next week or the week after?

When will the responsibility for losing a game be held by the players?

In a game where there are many instances that cost goals, led to turnovers etc... it is unfair to point the finger at one player for the loss. If no other errors were made, no turnovers committed, no opportunities missed, then maybe that one player could be blamed. But when there are a number of incidents, it's simply unfair. The responsibility should be (and I'm sure it is) held by the players - as a collective group. They all take the blame for the loss, and each individual works to correct errors in skill and/or decision making. Then they work on those things as a team. You don't apportion blame to individuals - that's not how any team I played in did it, anyway.

[LostDoggy]

Re: And so it goes.... As usual!

In a game where there are many instances that cost goals, led to turnovers etc... it is unfair to point the finger at one player for the loss. If no other errors were made, no turnovers committed, no opportunities missed, then maybe that one player could be blamed. But when there are a number of incidents, it's simply unfair. The responsibility should be (and I'm sure it is) held by the players - as a collective group. They all take the blame for the loss, and each individual works to correct errors in skill and/or decision making. Then they work on those things as a team. You don't apportion blame to individuals - that's not how any team I played in did it, anyway.

From a players' perspective, and yes, from what the coach tells the team, it IS a team effort, but believe me, coaches zero in on INDIVIDUAL players like nothing else when selecting the team, developing tactical plans, and planning for the future. Of course player combinations and track records are paramount in this analysis, but if a coach isn't singling out players (in analysis, if not in the way he communicates this to the team) and coaching them through crucial moments/mistakes in the match, then they are not doing their job.

I agree with you though that responsibility for a win/loss should be collective. My vent in the Gia thread was a fan's rhetoric, not a sportsperson's.

[Mofra]

Re: And so it goes.... As usual!

I mean, you could also blame Barry for reversing the 50, however, I place Gia up a cog because he is our vice captain, the best finisher in league and there is no credible excuse why he tried to do what he did. It began the momentum shift St Kilda's way and the rest is history.

So a vice-Captian who splits his time between forward & midfield who was making the play (albeit poorly) is worse than a Premiership Captain getting sucked in off the ball and reversing a 35m shot on goal from our best kick?

Can't agree. I wouldn't blame simply one player for the loss, but in terms of culpability Hall's action was worse than Gia's.

Cross' inability to execute a simple handball on more than one occasion is a far more worrying sign anyway.