The one thing stopping us winning the flag?

[LostDoggy]

Re: The one thing stopping us winning the flag?

The 2010 PF was lost because no-one stood up to stem the tide against us, as we gave up our half time lead during the 3rd quarter. I think there is validity in the thinking that we need more players prepared to make their mark in that situation.

You must of been at a different game. We lost cause we weren't good enough. If you are going to saying injurys prior and during the game played there part, its a more valid excuse.

[LostDoggy]

Re: The one thing stopping us winning the flag?

Some of the big factors was the Beard damaging his ankle in Darwin. Cooney and Cross were struggling for consistent form. Our biggest problem was that we abandoned our run and carry through the corridor, too often a promising drive upfield resulted in a switch of play to the wing and we would turn it over. I like BB as our rock at FF but we tried to drop it on his head instead of having him lead to the ball, again a turnover , we needed young Higgins to be our Crumber but he was injured or ill. Our decision making in the tight games let us down too many times. 2010 was a tough year , disruptions, controversy , injuries .

2011 brings a No 2 ruck battle between Big W and J-Ruff , Hooper ( the 4X4 ) moving to a midfield rotation with Cooney, Easton Wood replacing Shaggy at HB, Nathan Djerrkura slotting in at BP, Callan Ward and the Sherminator competing for a spot on the bench as Rebounding Flankers , Dylan Addison to mould his game on Rooke - Defensive Forward and move to FP , Liam Jones and Veszpremi to compete for a HF starting spot

The future is positive, we have a good platform to launch a great campaign for September glory

The question should be , Who is going to be good enough to stop us ?
.

[boydogs]

Re: The one thing stopping us winning the flag?

What role did Matthew Lloyd play in the first week of the finals?

What role did the Hawks play?

You must of been at a different game. We lost cause we weren't good enough. If you are going to saying injurys prior and during the game played there part, its a more valid excuse.

We were in front at half time without Cooney and Higgins. The Saints got a run on in the 3rd and all of a sudden our season was over without firing a shot.

[LostDoggy]

Re: The one thing stopping us winning the flag?

We were in front at half time without Cooney and Higgins. The Saints got a run on in the 3rd and all of a sudden our season was over without firing a shot.

Yes cos we copped a few more injurys not because we didn't go in hard enough.
If you don't think the saints were better than us you're kidding yourself.

[Mantis]

Re: The one thing stopping us winning the flag?

2011 brings a No 2 ruck battle between Big W and J-Ruff , Hooper ( the 4X4 ) moving to a midfield rotation with Cooney, Easton Wood replacing Shaggy at HB, Nathan Djerrkura slotting in at BP, Callan Ward and the Sherminator competing for a spot on the bench as Rebounding Flankers , Dylan Addison to mould his game on Rooke - Defensive Forward and move to FP , Liam Jones and Veszpremi to compete for a HF starting spot

I can't agree with much of this.

Hooper to the midfield - I can't see it happening, his motor isn't big enough and his body shape isn't really designed to play as a modern day midfielder.

Wood was already in our best 22 last season (along with Hargrave).

Djerrkura has played all his footy as a mid/ forward and although a positional change worked with Harbrow one would suggest that it would be a stretch for it to happen again.

Ward showed his value in the centre square in the PF, thats where he belongs.

Sherman is a winger/ HF, he needs to be running with the ball forward of centre.

Jones & Veszpremi will not be competing for a spot in the team. Jones is a CHF, Ves is a small/mid forward.

[LostDoggy]

Re: The one thing stopping us winning the flag?

Look at what happened with Hawthorn v Essendon in round 22, 2009, and then tell me that physicality can't turn a match on its head.

Look at our first final vs. Collingwood in 2006 where they cleaned up Monty while we went down and scored two goals -- it's usually more trouble than its worth.

In the last decade, teams have won premierships by beating other teams, mainly on toughness and skill. The only teams engaging in stupid crap are the ones that know that they are outclassed.

Only Hawthorn, with its 'unsociable footy' crap, has pulled it off, but mainly because Buddy kicked 150 goals that year, not because they eye-gouged everyone they played. They still eye gouge and have players suspended weekly, so they've maintained their so-called 'mongrel', but Buddy and Roughhead's output has diminished, and they've become a finals non-factor.

The example you use of the Hawthorn Essendon match is actually a perfect illustration of the opposite of your point -- neither of them were a serious factor that year due to being completely shit so had to go out and make a statement with a hip and shoulder rather than just outscoring their opponents. No one else in the footy world really gave a shit about anything that went on in that game, especially not those actually challenging for a flag that year, and Lloydy's hip-and-shoulder had zero bearing on where the flag ended up.

[LostDoggy]

Re: The one thing stopping us winning the flag?

The Riewoldt dive is a poor example for a few reasons. It was never intended to be a serious hit, it was not done whilst the Saints were on top and it should never have been given a free as it was just a dive.
.

But that's PRECISELY why it's stupid to bother engaging in try-hard mongrel antics, because the umps are inconsistent and the AFL are clamping down on behind-the-play rubbish. It's no use complaining after the fact that it was a 'dive' etc. etc. -- the Saints won the match, we didn't.

And if you don't think the free changed the momentum of the match (and helped decide a tight game won by less than two goals) then we were watching a different game. I was pissed off at the ump at the time too, but really, Lake should have known better after the ump warned him just before he went ahead and did it anyway.

Cleaning a Saints player up wouldn't have changed the result of the game -- Lake not giving away the free and Gia kicking straight in the last two minutes probably would have.

[boydogs]

Re: The one thing stopping us winning the flag?

Look at our first final vs. Collingwood in 2006 where they cleaned up Monty while we went down and scored two goals -- it's usually more trouble than its worth.

In the last decade, teams have won premierships by beating other teams, mainly on toughness and skill. The only teams engaging in stupid crap are the ones that know that they are outclassed.

Only Hawthorn, with its 'unsociable footy' crap, has pulled it off, but mainly because Buddy kicked 150 goals that year, not because they eye-gouged everyone they played. They still eye gouge and have players suspended weekly, so they've maintained their so-called 'mongrel', but Buddy and Roughhead's output has diminished, and they've become a finals non-factor.

The example you use of the Hawthorn Essendon match is actually a perfect illustration of the opposite of your point -- neither of them were a serious factor that year due to being completely shit so had to go out and make a statement with a hip and shoulder rather than just outscoring their opponents. No one else in the footy world really gave a shit about anything that went on in that game, especially not those actually challenging for a flag that year, and Lloydy's hip-and-shoulder had zero bearing on where the flag ended up.

Collingwood were in front at quarter time in that final following the Holland/Monty bump at the opening bounce before we kicked about 15 goals in a row after we finally settled down again. It didn't help Essendon the next week, but the Lloyd/Sewell bump definitely won them that game.

Regardless, we are getting away from the point I was trying to make. I'm not really promoting physicality, just saying that 'good under pressure' and 'mongrel' often go hand in hand. It's a confidence thing to believe you can turn things around when it's all going against you, or prevail when it matters, and most players with a bit of mongrel have that confidence.

But that's PRECISELY why it's stupid to bother engaging in try-hard mongrel antics, because the umps are inconsistent and the AFL are clamping down on behind-the-play rubbish. It's no use complaining after the fact that it was a 'dive' etc. etc. -- the Saints won the match, we didn't.

And if you don't think the free changed the momentum of the match (and helped decide a tight game won by less than two goals) then we were watching a different game. I was pissed off at the ump at the time too, but really, Lake should have known better after the ump warned him just before he went ahead and did it anyway.

Cleaning a Saints player up wouldn't have changed the result of the game -- Lake not giving away the free and Gia kicking straight in the last two minutes probably would have.

That bump absolutely changed the momentum of the match, but it still wasn't an example of trying to turn the momentum by getting physical.

[LostDoggy]

Re: The one thing stopping us winning the flag?

Collingwood were in front at quarter time in that final following the Holland/Monty bump at the opening bounce before we kicked about 15 goals in a row after we finally settled down again. It didn't help Essendon the next week, but the Lloyd/Sewell bump definitely won them that game.

Your memory is short. Franklin being outted for the week before for sconing Cousins won had more influence on the result.

[LostDoggy]

Re: The one thing stopping us winning the flag?

Yes cos we copped a few more injurys not because we didn't go in hard enough.
If you don't think the saints were better than us you're kidding yourself.

I've said it way to many times already but I'll say it once more, THE SAINTS WERE NOT AND ARE NOT BETTER. Just luckier. And that's y'all I've gat ta say bout that.

[chef]

Re: The one thing stopping us winning the flag?

I've said it way to many times already but I'll say it once more, THE SAINTS WERE NOT AND ARE NOT BETTER. Just luckier. And that's y'all I've gat ta say bout that.

The Saints were better than us over the last two seasons, the results speak for themselves(no luck involved). Whether they are again next year us yet to be seen but IMO we will finish above them.

[anfo27]

Re: The one thing stopping us winning the flag?

I've said it way to many times already but I'll say it once more, THE SAINTS WERE NOT AND ARE NOT BETTER. Just luckier. And that's y'all I've gat ta say bout that.

We definately have more talent then the saints but talent only takes you so far. The saints are better than us because they play to the game plan and their mental strength makes up for their lack of talent.

[EasternWest]

Re: The one thing stopping us winning the flag?

I've said it way to many times already but I'll say it once more, THE SAINTS WERE NOT AND ARE NOT BETTER. Just luckier. And that's y'all I've gat ta say bout that.

The Saints were slightly better and luckier in the 09 pf. In 10 they were clearly better, and luck was not a factor.

Love your rose coloured glasses, but gotta disagree.

[EasternWest]

Re: The one thing stopping us winning the flag?

Your memory is short. Franklin being outted for the week before for sconing Cousins won had more influence on the result.

I was at that game. Sewell was cutting Essendon up, and Lloyd ironing him out absolutely, definitively turned the game. I know you don't like it when people disagree with you Chops, but that's just how it was.

As an aside, it was also the hardest hit I've ever seen with my own eyes. I'd say Harbrow hitting Lewis was close, but Lloyd wins due to mass.

[LostDoggy]

Re: The one thing stopping us winning the flag?

I was at that game. Sewell was cutting Essendon up, and Lloyd ironing him out absolutely, definitively turned the game. I know you don't like it when people disagree with you Chops, but that's just how it was.

As an aside, it was also the hardest hit I've ever seen with my own eyes. I'd say Harbrow hitting Lewis was a close, but Lloyd wins on mass.

I'm not doubting the Sewell hit changed that game at the time but I doubt Hawthorn would have lost (Sewell hit or not) had Franklin not been suspended for hitting Cousins the week before.
You can say Lloyd won that game for Essendon or Franklin lost it for Hawthorn.

Please clarify what I meant next time before you accuse me of being disagreeable.