Credit where it is due

[Bornadog]

Re: Credit where it is due

Pleased to read this about Austin. Interestingly, I had a couple of mates who follow other teams comment that Mark Austin looked like a handy player too.

Played an excellent game and kept Dawes pretty quiet on the night. I think he will be very handy for us and still only 23.

[always right]

Re: Credit where it is due

As wont painting pretty pictures.
My gripe was that there were 2 positive post threads after the pies game before this thread was started.

If you were quick enough you could have started your own critical thread first.

I'm not satisfied with the loss but considering where our team is at the moment, the fact we lack the quality of previous years, and the fact that the coach is only 6 rounds in.....I'm happy to acknowledge the improvement. Next week will tell the full story however.

[Eastdog]

Re: Credit where it is due

If you were quick enough you could have started your own critical thread.

I'm not satisfied with the loss but considering where our team is at the moment, the fact we lack the quality of previous years, and the fact that the coach is only 6 rounds in.....I'm happy to acknowledge e improvement. Next week will tell the full story however.

Last year when we beat Carlton who were looking very strong the next week against North we struggled after everyone thought we were going to win. Hopefully next week this doesn't happen and we come out of the blocks once again. North will be coming of the Perth tdothan that might be in our favour. If we win against North then next match against GC should also be a win as well but we must take it one step at a time.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Credit where it is due

The thread title is "credit where it is due" and I think Friday nights effort was pretty good.

Is pretty good = credit where it is due?
I guess I'm a bit like Chops, the culture needs to change. 60 yrs is long enough. I know we can't win 'em all but I can't be happy about almost beating a team that isn't a top 4 side.
The best way to put it is what was previously mentioned, "do you think a Collingwood, Essendon or Geelong forum would have a thread like this?"

. Tough talk is just that and it won't change the outcome of games.

What do you mean by tough talk?

[westdog54]

Re: Credit where it is due

As wont painting pretty pictures.
My gripe was that there were 2 positive post threads after the pies game before this thread was started.

And you felt that derailing one of them was the way to go? I've known you for a while now, and I think you're better than that.

You've got a right to express an opinion but why pour scorn on those expressing a bit of optimism after a miserable month of football?

Is pretty good = credit where it is due?
I guess I'm a bit like Chops, the culture needs to change. 60 yrs is long enough. I know we can't win 'em all but I can't be happy about almost beating a team that isn't a top 4 side.
The best way to put it is what was previously mentioned, "do you think a Collingwood, Essendon or Geelong forum would have a thread like this?"

When we're a bottom six side who has played deat set terribly for 18 months, I'll happily pull a few positives from 'almost beating' a team that's made the last 2 grand finals and contains the likes of Cloke, Pendlebury, Swan, Sidebottom and H.Shaw, while still being dissapointed about the end result.

None of Collingwood, Essendon or Geelong will finish in the bottom six this year, so as far as I'm concerned your question isn't all that relevant at the moment.

[GVGjr]

Re: Credit where it is due

What do you mean by tough talk?

"Tough talk" about not acknowledging a good effort in a loss. A lot of people can only focus on win when gauging the progress of a team and that is fair enough if you have a quality team but the fact is that our list has been poorly managed for a few seasons and we are paying the price for it. I'll continue to look a little deeper about how we are performing than just the win loss column.

In my opinion you don't have to win a Brownlow to be regarded as a good player (and I hope the umpires don't overlook the effort of Griffen on Friday night because we lost) and while we aren't genuine contenders I can accept some losses as still being a positive for the club.

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Credit where it is due

I was very happy with the effort and not the result, the oppsite of last week against GWS.

I struggle to see how a Dogs fan can be happier with the performance against GWS than the Pies.t

There are so many elements in a game to be pleased/displeased about but overall I was very pleased with Friday night's performance. I loved our effort and for the majority of the game were we balanced toughness with increased spread and movement (my favourite part).

What I didn't like was when we stopped moving just before HT and seemingly lack the belief in clutch moments. I am with BMac with his approach to building confidence though. I don't think you do it by constantly blasting players.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Credit where it is due

And you felt that derailing one of them was the way to go? I've known you for a while now, and I think you're better than that.

If I wanted to derail the thread, I didn't do it very well as this thread is now 5 pages long. It probably would have seen little activity if it was just all positive.
I merely said too much credit has been given in a game we lost.

You've got a right to express an opinion but why pour scorn on those expressing a bit of optimism after a miserable month of football?

Mainly because bit has turned into a lot.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Credit where it is due

I was very happy with the effort and not the result, the oppsite of last week against GWS.

I struggle to see how a Dogs fan can be happier with the performance against GWS than the Pies.

I was happier because we got the points.
Last week to much was written on how badly we played. Gws set themselves for a win, we started poorly, they got the umpiring and we still won easily. This week they showed for 3 qtrs they aren't that bad.
This week it's the opposite.

[Raw Toast]

Re: Credit where it is due

Is it possible that I like following football slightly less after reading this thread?
The theory that people can't clap their team off after a loss is frankly baffling. Football supporters do and will do whatever they want at the football. Is people clapping their players off after a loss worse than a supporter maligning a player from their own team for 120 minutes during a win? Does it contribute more to an overall losing aesthetic throughout the history of a team? Does it make a jot of *!*!*!*!ing difference? I'd suggest no. Are Geelong currently a successful team because their supporters stopped applauding effort around 2006 or because they drafted magnificently and installed a game plan that had complete buy in from those players?

I distinctly remember after a 1 point loss to Geelong at Docklands making the effort to walk over to the race and clap the players off, because they had played magnificently and left everything on the ground. Did my accepting effort over result contribute to us not winning the premiership that year or since?

Was I happy after Friday night?
Kind of. I thought our game had come together for longer and more completely than it had in any game this season and we'd shown improvement.
Was I disappointed at the result? Absolutely.
Maybe I'm too accepting of the middle ground but realistically among 25000 members, people will react differently to different situations and to say one is right or wrong when the ultimate influence on result is almost negligible, seems pointless.
Ghost Dog started this thread to acknowledge some positives out of Friday night. It's devolved into a back and forth about supporter involvement which I've now contributed to (or not). I don't think we can deny there were positives out of Friday. Winning the game wasn't one of them.

Great post Underdog.

I was very disappointed that we lost, but it was a heartening game in many ways.

It's not that it was an honorable loss, it's that we showed we could play a style of game that IF we can keep it up (and of course that is a fairly big if, but it is what we're building towards), will bring us back into contention (not this year of course, but you have to build towards sustained success and then hope for the luck that it takes to win a flag).

To be more precise, we showed for significant patches, that we could win the ball well and move it quickly, spreading the best we've done for awhile (and definitely under McCartney).

Not only that, certain players showed that they were developing and learning. Wood for instance, had a massive game where he showed that he was starting to 'get' what he has to do to be an effective player. That is, go for his marks (which he started doing late against the Dees I think, though it might have been the Saints), and then burst away from opponents. I really hope his hamstring doesn't curtail this, but it was the first time for ages that he looked like he knew what to do, and I think credit needs to be given to him and the coaches.

Among other bits, Austin showed that he has great hands once the ball hits the deck and is good in the air when (and again a big when) he doesn't allow the opponent to outbody him. Lake showed that he can recapture his elite form and dominated Cloke in a most pleasing manner (again, he stuffed up at a key moment, but was super impressive and you'd take that game from Lake every week I reckon).

There's still issues, the players couldn't continue to play the game style when they were very fatigued (though giving us a 6 day break compared to the Pies 10 day break seems a significant disadvantage). And BMac was grumpy about some of them running ahead of the ball at key moments. Nevertheless, the game was a positive sign that we are building in a good way, and if we can repeat the effort and continue to improve on the ball movement and spread then we'll soon be back to the joys of complaining about not winning in a perfect enough manner.

Another thing to add. We had some big moments in the first half where we seemed to be beating the Pies structurally, which is a big plus I think.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Credit where it is due

"Tough talk" about not acknowledging a good effort in a loss. A lot of people can only focus on win when gauging the progress of a team and that is fair enough if you have a quality team but the fact is that our list has been poorly managed for a few seasons and we are paying the price for it. I'll continue to look a little deeper about how we are performing than just the win loss column.

In my opinion you don't have to win a Brownlow to be regarded as a good player (and I hope the umpires don't overlook the effort of Griffen on Friday night because we lost) and while we aren't genuine contenders I can accept some losses as still being a positive for the club.

I'm 50-50 with you on this one. #1 is the result and after that break apart the game and find what did and didn't work. I guess the "what worked" is what Ghosty was trying to get out of this topic. If so we kind of cover that in the Bankers and anchors.
But I cannot agree with your last statement, there is no positive in losses just learnings. Good and bad.
Each to their own though, I can respect your opinion.

[AndrewP6]

Re: Credit where it is due

I'm 50-50 with you on this one. #1 is the result and after that break apart the game and find what did and didn't work. I guess the "what worked" is what Ghosty was trying to get out of this topic. If so we kind of cover that in the Bankers and anchors.
But I cannot agree with your last statement, there is no positive in losses just learnings. Good and bad.
Each to their own though, I can respect your opinion.

Learning is positive.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Credit where it is due

Learning is positive.

Not when it's the same lesson that you thought you learnt already.

[comrade]

Re: Credit where it is due

I was happier because we got the points.
Last week to much was written on how badly we played. Gws set themselves for a win, we started poorly, they got the umpiring and we still won easily. This week they showed for 3 qtrs they aren't that bad.
This week it's the opposite.

Of course, a win is better than a loss and you were happier with the result last week, but surely you can't have been happier with the performance.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Credit where it is due

Of course, a win is better than a loss and you were happier with the result last week, but surely you can't have been happier with the performance.

Performance yes.
I already said I prefer an ugly win over a honorable loss.