Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

[LostDoggy]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

Gia has almost always done well in the midfield

This. Gia has almost always done elite well in midfield. Both a qualitative AND quantitative (stats) assessment of this will quite easily settle the argument. I'm surprised and intrigued at how certain impressions form about certain players and their capabilities.

[Cyberdoggie]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

Regardless i think it's the wrong approach to be trying to stack our midfield with old and slow guys like Boyd, Cross and Gia on a full time basis.

These guys have got a couple of years left in them and it's imperative that Wallis, Libba, Dahlhaus, and other potentials learn their craft along side them while they are still there.

Boyd is still a first class midfielder and we also have Griffen there so i don't see the need for Cross and Gia, whom i'm sure we would all agree are not as good as the previous too in the middle.

Sure if those guys were missing from the side then some experience would be required in that position, and it will probably fall to those 2 to fill it.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

Moving Gia isn't to fix the midfield, it's to fix the forwardline. If you're worried about slow, old dudes, it's FAR worse having them in the forwardline these days than in the middle. Gia's lack of pace would not be as much of a liability in the middle.

Again, I've said that I don't see Dahlhaus (from your list Cyberdoggie) as a long-time mid, so it's not a contradiction to suggest just swapping them.

I would also question the Gia/Boydy comparison. I don't think we've seen Gia in the middle enough to make an absolute case either way, but we've seen enough to know that Gia generally plays a 30+ possession game when played in the middle, and his disposals are highly damaging and effective (again, this guy led the club and the comp in assists for a long, long time). Boydy has the capacity for 30-40+ possession games at a lower effectiveness. I say the case is line-ball.

[jeemak]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

The point Boyd has is durability. I know Gia hasn't missed a lot of games, but that might not have been the case if played midfield his entire career.

Agree that he'd make a great ball user and contributor, and it's a credit to him he's been able to put together a very solid career on the back of playing a position not necessarily suited to him.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

The point Boyd has is durability. I know Gia hasn't missed a lot of games, but that might not have been the case if played midfield his entire career.

Agree that he'd make a great ball user and contributor, and it's a credit to him he's been able to put together a very solid career on the back of playing a position not necessarily suited to him.

I see Gia in the same light as Minson up to this year. Playing a position that's best for the team but not necessarily best for him.

[LongWait]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

The guy who I think might do a bit of damage if played as a small forward is Picken. Fierce attack on the footy, great defensive skills, a very good 50 meter kick and an exceptional ability to snap a goal off balance and under pressure. Can find the ball as well. Unfortunately we also need him elsewhere and playing another role. Would seriously love to see Liam given a month up forward to see how he goes.

[Mantis]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

I see Gia in the same light as Minson up to this year. Playing a position that's best for the team but not necessarily best for him.

If Gia was that good in the midfield he would have forced his way in there.

Same as if Minson was better than Hudson he would have been our no.1 ruckman years ago.

[jeemak]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

If Gia was that good in the midfield he would have forced his way in there.

Same as if Minson was better than Hudson he would have been our no.1 ruckman years ago.

That's not really true. He's been our best option as a small to mid-sized goal kicker, so due to needs he's been played there.

We also have had midfielders that can't play anywhere else, but ultimately deserve a game.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

If Gia was that good in the midfield he would have forced his way in there.

Same as if Minson was better than Hudson he would have been our no.1 ruckman years ago.

I don't agree at all.

I think Hudson and Minson were both 7/10 as ruckmen but Hudson was a 2/10 as a forward and Minson was a 4/10. We were better off playing Minson forward because Hudson couldn't, but Minson's reputation suffered for it.

Equally, Gia is played forward because no-one else can but we have plenty of high endurance ball winners who can play in the middle.

[GVGjr]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

I don't agree at all.

I think Hudson and Minson were both 7/10 as ruckmen but Hudson was a 2/10 as a forward and Minson was a 4/10. We were better off playing Minson forward because Hudson couldn't, but Minson's reputation suffered for it.

Equally, Gia is played forward because no-one else can but we have plenty of high endurance ball winners who can play in the middle.

Agreed. Minson was certainly seen as the better option of the two up forward. I saw a number of training sessions where Minson was working on his contested marking as a forward. Never saw the same work being done with Hudson.

Regarding Giansiracusa, he's better suited to the forward line duties now but a couple of seasons back it was more around the fact that we needed him to spend more time there.

We did the same with Brad Johnson who was moved forward well before his work around the midfield diminished.

[GVGjr]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

If Gia was that good in the midfield he would have forced his way in there.

Same as if Minson was better than Hudson he would have been our no.1 ruckman years ago.

Sorry Mantis, have to disagree completely. In my opinion the reason Minson was second to Huddo had more to do with interpersonal relations with the coach. To me he was always both a better, and more adaptable, and less predictable ruck than Huddo.
Don't get me wrong, I liked The Beard, but you [ and the opposition] always knew if Huddo got his hand to the ball it would go back down into the scrum at his feet. Minno has always been a lot less predictable. He can also put it straight down, but he equally can flick it out to the edge of the pack, or even spike it volleyball style to half forward. He is much less predictable to the opposition.

[Mantis]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

Sorry Mantis, have to disagree completely. In my opinion the reason Minson was second to Huddo had more to do with interpersonal relations with the coach. To me he was always both a better, and more adaptable, and less predictable ruck than Huddo.

Don't get me wrong, I liked The Beard, but you [ and the opposition] always knew if Huddo got his hand to the ball it would go back down into the scrum at his feet. Minno has always been a lot less predictable. He can also put it straight down, but he equally can flick it out to the edge of the pack, or even spike it volleyball style to half forward. He is much less predictable to the opposition.

While I agree that Minson was a better 'tapper' of the ball, Huddo was so much better at many other parts of the game.

[Hotdog60]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

Wasn't it the sub rule that ultimately did in our ruck combo.

[jeemak]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

Wasn't it the sub rule that ultimately did in our ruck combo.

Or Rocket's perspective on how the substitute should be managed.

I personally thought Hudson was cooked last year and Minson should have been playing first ruck.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

While I agree that Minson was a better 'tapper' of the ball, Huddo was so much better at many other parts of the game.

Hudson couldn't run or mark. All he could do was shepherd and scramble, both of which Minson can as well.

Or Rocket's perspective on how the substitute should be managed.

I personally thought Hudson was cooked last year and Minson should have been playing first ruck.

This.