Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

[LostDoggy]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

I was a bit too strident in tackling you on this - playing the man, albeit without meaning to, is something we all do from time to time and I'm probably guilty as well.

Thanks for being a decent bloke about it.

No worries at all mate.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

The lack of experience in the box, is a very valid point but we also need to give credit for the way we were able to challenge both last year's Grand Finalists, Geelong and Collingwood, with an inferior forward line which were brave efforts. The experiment of playing ruckman in Roughead and Cordy as forwards clearly hasn't worked. Jones similarly has been a big disappointment. I would give up on both Cordy and Jones for the moment and look at other key forward options. Roughead is clearly a budding ruckman and simply needs to be given added time in the ruck. I think the time is right to move Murphy back into our attack where apart from Dahlhaus we have sadly lacked any class. Higgins is too slow to keep playing as a forward and repeatedly plays from behind.
I would pump for Tom Hill at full forward. We really have nothing to lose but to look at other options. It might just work.

Just on the bolded bit, I don't necessarily disagree, but I do worry about giving up too quickly on young talls. Some of these kids haven't been given a decent shot at a role -- they've been thrown up and back and all around, then dropped, then drop out with a little niggle here and there. Cordy and Roughead have also not had a decent run without injuries, so now that they are injury free I do worry about dropping them too often.

Things a young player need more than anything is continuity and support from older teammates. I suggest that we are sorely lacking in the latter, and if we keep dropping them we risk also taking the former away.

[jeemak]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

The lack of experience in the box, is a very valid point but we also need to give credit for the way we were able to challenge both last year's Grand Finalists, Geelong and Collingwood, with an inferior forward line which were brave efforts. The experiment of playing ruckman in Roughead and Cordy as forwards clearly hasn't worked. Jones similarly has been a big disappointment. I would give up on both Cordy and Jones for the moment and look at other key forward options. Roughead is clearly a budding ruckman and simply needs to be given added time in the ruck. I think the time is right to move Murphy back into our attack where apart from Dahlhaus we have sadly lacked any class. Higgins is too slow to keep playing as a forward and repeatedly plays from behind.
I would pump for Tom Hill at full forward. We really have nothing to lose but to look at other options. It might just work.

I really don't see why we'd take the short road and give up on any of Cordy, Roughead (as a forwad/second ruck) or Jones.

I posted early on this year that our forward line needs to be seen as a vehicle to future improvement, and to allow that improvement to bare fruit we need to let the guys you've mentioned to get games under their belt. Adding Murphy right now will probably increase our ability to score a couple more goals a game, though realistically it's only going to hurt him physically and stifle our future development in that area.

Our forward line will develop slowly, though if we want to speed up the process we need to fix our ball movement from defense through the midfield. I'm actually surprised Higgins, Giansiracusa along with Dahl and the talls mentioned above have been able to score at all with the service they've been given. For mine, the screaming defficiency in our side right now is the lack of clean ball generated from the large amounts of contested possessions we're recording each game.

If we cleaned that up, and managed to lessen the ease of clean possession our opposition benefit from as a result of our innability to spread and contest the second or third ball from each contested situation, our backline would be under significantly less pressure and they'd be able to move the ball forward with ease.

I understand that Higgins and Gia are struggling right now, though they're currently playing the hardest role to play in the AFL. They don't have a consistently peforming key forward to provide support to, or receive support from, and the delivery coming in is third rate, at best.

It doesn't matter who we put up forward right now, they're going to struggle no matter what. I personally think the coaching staff have our forward mix right considering the personnel we have, and the only saving grace from this year will be the fact the young guys, as well as Higgins and Dickson will have to learn how to score goals under trying circumstances.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

Can't see Missy having the pace (or frankly the fortitude) to hold down an effective midfield slot. As much as BMac talks him up I just don't see any upside.

Gia's unfortunately a ghost already and the proof of your words is what we are seeing in our forward 50. We need to let Dahlhaus be a small forward again for awhile to get some crumbing goals happening. Cordy's contesting well but in pulling Dahl up the ground, and with neither Missy nor Gia having pace, I rekon we are missing 1-2 goals a game which we desperately require. It's not a panacea but it would give us back 6-12 points a game perhaps?

Problem with Higgo and Gia is just when you gnash your teeth, they do something amazing and you feel bad for potting them!

[Mofra]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

Our forward line will develop slowly, though if we want to speed up the process we need to fix our ball movement from defense through the midfield. I'm actually surprised Higgins, Giansiracusa along with Dahl and the talls mentioned above have been able to score at all with the service they've been given. For mine, the screaming defficiency in our side right now is the lack of clean ball generated from the large amounts of contested possessions we're recording each game.

That's a good point - but because of that I think a few posters have been lookign for effort more than result. For mine, Cordy has been putting in a masive amount of effort for a kid with only a handful of games to his name - I've been impressed with his ability to compete in the air and pressure teh oppositoion when the ball hits the deck.

It's also the difference IMO between Higgins & Gia at the moment - Missy seems to be at least getting to contests, Gia hasn't and some of his goals have been merely smart positioning on the turnover, often because his opponent has been running hard to provide an option out of defence and he's been fortunate enopugh to gain seperation.

I understand that Higgins and Gia are struggling right now, though they're currently playing the hardest role to play in the AFL. They don't have a consistently peforming key forward to provide support to, or receive support from, and the delivery coming in is third rate, at best.

Delivery is poor but being a forward is alot about unrewarded running - spreading to create space, leading hard to at least provide an option when the midfield has possession under pressure. Gia must be carrying something because his running seems to have dropped off (and I don't want to be an outer-screamer type but the jog & point from a senior player shits me to tears). Dickson chases much harder and Cordy seems to run hard too. Jones was very good last year but has dropped off in this aspect in recent weeks.

[Hot_Doggies]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

Whats hurting Higgin's the most is he is the 'fastest' player on the forward line. Opposition teams can afford to play a quick defender on him, because they aren't required anywhere else.

Different story if we had 2 nippy smalls in the pockets and Grant/Murphy on the opposite flank.

[Missing-Dog]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

Everybody is dissapointed in Higgens and say he has lost al his upside.

I dont know about anybody else but i do not see any issues with his kicking for goal either on the run or from a set shot. TBH I am most confortable seeing the ball in higgens hands infront of goal just as I am with Gia and Dickson. Higgens is not very quick as we all know but is smart infront of goal and think we need to give him time playing forward (not mid).

Dickson on the other hand is quicker then what everybody else is making him out to be. I has seen him chase a number of opponents down. Think after another pre season he will be alot better for us aswell. Either way am very happy with this pick up!

Gia maybe getting too old but is important in out forward structure this year. Think having Dickson and Higgens in the forward line when Gia retired may be a better option. Having all 3 though is hurting us atm.

[always right]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

Is the problem here that the coaches appear to be trying to find a formula for winning games this year rather than a formula for building for future success?

Moving Murphy forward might give us more pace around goal but surely this is a short term plan. Aren't we better off deciding what we see as the potential structure for next year and invest time in that structure even if it means losing games?

If we think Jones and Cordy are our best bet at this stage.....play them every week up forward. If we want to get more pace into our forwardline in future, play the blokes who can provide that long term....Grant (what's happened to him?), Tutt (when fit), and Dahlhaus fit the bill. Only play one of Gia or Higgins up forward.

[always right]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

Everybody is dissapointed in Higgens and say he has lost al his upside.

I dont know about anybody else but i do not see any issues with his kicking for goal either on the run or from a set shot. TBH I am most confortable seeing the ball in higgens hands infront of goal just as I am with Gia and Dickson. Higgens is not very quick as we all know but is smart infront of goal and think we need to give him time playing forward (not mid).

Agree...other than when he runs onto his left foot. Reckon he runs at around 30% efficency on his left. Set shot on his preferred side.....80% chance of nailing it.

[jeemak]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

That's a good point - but because of that I think a few posters have been lookign for effort more than result. For mine, Cordy has been putting in a masive amount of effort for a kid with only a handful of games to his name - I've been impressed with his ability to compete in the air and pressure teh oppositoion when the ball hits the deck.

It's also the difference IMO between Higgins & Gia at the moment - Missy seems to be at least getting to contests, Gia hasn't and some of his goals have been merely smart positioning on the turnover, often because his opponent has been running hard to provide an option out of defence and he's been fortunate enopugh to gain seperation.


Delivery is poor but being a forward is alot about unrewarded running - spreading to create space, leading hard to at least provide an option when the midfield has possession under pressure. Gia must be carrying something because his running seems to have dropped off (and I don't want to be an outer-screamer type but the jog & point from a senior player shits me to tears). Dickson chases much harder and Cordy seems to run hard too. Jones was very good last year but has dropped off in this aspect in recent weeks.

Giansiracusa looks like he's struggling through his core and groin/upper legs. In a sense I hope his attitude is still right and it's his body letting him down, as having been a believer that reality hasn't met perception in the past when his defensive output has been questioned, I can't bring myself to defend it currently.

Cordy's effort across the board has been excellent, and I'm now thinking that my hopes for him becoming an outstanding player have some basis. I think Dickson needs to get a lot fitter, though I can tell he's trying to create and defend after a very sluggish start in that area.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

Is the problem here that the coaches appear to be trying to find a formula for winning games this year rather than a formula for building for future success?

Moving Murphy forward might give us more pace around goal but surely this is a short term plan. Aren't we better off deciding what we see as the potential structure for next year and invest time in that structure even if it means losing games?

If we think Jones and Cordy are our best bet at this stage.....play them every week up forward. If we want to get more pace into our forwardline in future, play the blokes who can provide that long term....Grant (what's happened to him?), Tutt (when fit), and Dahlhaus fit the bill. Only play one of Gia or Higgins up forward.

I agree that both Gia and Higgins shouldn't be on the same forward line. Comments by BMcC this week could see Higgins moved to defence with Murphy going forward. This makes more sense to me. I am still to be convinced that both Jones and Cordy is the answer to our key forward woes. You would hope that at some stage, Tom Hill, Panos or Redpath might emerge to be considered good enough to play forward.
Dickson shows all the signs of becoming a regular along with Dahlhaus. The concerns remain Grant, Sherman and Djeerkura who are yet to grasp the mettle by becoming permanent fixtures in attack.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

Whats hurting Higgin's the most is he is the 'fastest' player on the forward line. Opposition teams can afford to play a quick defender on him, because they aren't required anywhere else.

Different story if we had 2 nippy smalls in the pockets and Grant/Murphy on the opposite flank.

Well said. It's really only taken a junior quick like Dahlhaus to spark a fire in the team. Not trying to take anything away from his ball skills, but his most damaging asset is his speed. The success of Luke is due in most part to a glaring deficiency we have in our team. Forward pressure. Our50 is like a sieve. And the kid is going to get burnt out if he doesn't get a bit of support.

[GVGjr]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

To me the problem with the Twin sons of Different Mothers : Higgins and Gia, is we can not afford to have them both in the forward half at the same time. The next problem then becomes, where the hell do you put the other one? Neither has pace, neither could tackle some one's grandmother, and they both regularly go walk about mentally during the game, or at the very least resolutely refuse to chase.

Buggered if I know what the answer is there, but it sure ain't the status quo!!

Murph would be great back up forward, but we can't afford to remove him from a largely inexperienced back half till Morris and co return, and we find a real general for back there as Grant and Smith were in their latter years.
We must remain patient with the kids [ particularly the talls] and allow them time to develop. So I guess that means we have to learn to live with the pain for the balance of this season at the very least.

There is no point getting our knickers in a twist, and throwing the babies out with the dish water, but there needs to be changes made at season's end. Sadly that means some stalwarts may need to go, and having a strong sense of loyalty to our players, that is hard for me to say. But the reality is we need three things desperately: Kicking skill, pace, and kicking skill!

[jeemak]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

Well said. It's really only taken a junior quick like Dahlhaus to spark a fire in the team. Not trying to take anything away from his ball skills, but his most damaging asset is his speed. The success of Luke is due in most part to a glaring deficiency we have in our team. Forward pressure. Our50 is like a sieve. And the kid is going to get burnt out if he doesn't get a bit of support.

GD, do you think our forwards like Gia and Higgins, as well as our taller players would be as inneffective as they are defensively if the ball was delivered well?

When a team like Carlton is on song (they obviously have their issues right now), guys like Betts and Garlett look good as a result of their defensive pressure because they konw where to run and the delivery to the spots they run to are predictable to the whole team.

Our forward line leaks like a sieve because on one front we're not playing quick and defensive minded players there of course, though on the other we're slow to move the ball from defense and we service the forward line disgracefully when we finally decide to kick it forward.

We're so terrible and predictable when moving the ball forward that we give the oppositions' defense every chance of getting numbers back to enable them to clear the ball easily. Our forwards are double and tripple teamed as a result of this, and they're always outnumbered.

I think a few of our forwards need to look like they're trying harder, but really, they're pretty much screwed from the outset.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Brendan McCartney on the couch Monday

GD, do you think our forwards like Gia and Higgins, as well as our taller players would be as inneffective as they are defensively if the ball was delivered well?
.

Point taken JeeMak

As you say, the lack of a genuine Key forward, combined with some pretty unclean delivery has them trying to carry a pretty big load, on legs that no longer have that spring in their step. McCartney has shown a lot of respect to Shaun and Gia. Hope they can repay that faith as neither have been consistent and I'm not sure having both of them in our forward line is smart.