Brian Lake to Hawthorn

[Mofra]

Re: Brian Lake to Hawthorn

Name one 31 year old in AFL history who has fetched that price.

That's without free agency, without a degenerative hip complaint, without having contributed nothing the year before, without having a huge salary to offload and without the club being in a rebuilding phase.

All fair points - will be very interesting to see how Lake goes next year.

[boydogs]

Re: Brian Lake to Hawthorn

Spida Everitt was older when Sydney picked him up and that was for a straight 2nd round pick (late 20's from memory). He was far closer to the end physically than Lake is.

Second last pick of the second round, pick 33.

Yep. 3 time All Australian & 2 time B&F, traded at age 32, spent two years with Sydney before retiring. Pretty similar to Lake, and traded for about the same value.

All fair points - will be very interesting to see how Lake goes next year.

Still got his signed training jersey, sad to see him go
I think it was a fair trade though.

[Doc26]

Re: Brian Lake to Hawthorn

Name one 31 year old in AFL history who has fetched that price.

That's without free agency, without a degenerative hip complaint, without having contributed nothing the year before, without having a huge salary to offload and without the club being in a rebuilding phase.

So why then are Hawthorn so overjoyed to have finally landed their man being ~3 years in the making ? It's night and day if one compares the reaction from each Club's supporter bases.

I still rate Lake's currency and obviously so does Hawthorn. As for his durability, 2011 I'm putting down as one of those years that does happen, aside from this season he's held up extremely well and the value he can provide Hawthorn over the next 2 years is potentially very signifcant given their obvious deficiency down back.

As we well know, premierships don't come around easily and they are desperate coming off a loss they expected to win. They are right in their premiership window and realise they need to capitalise now before their Buddy and Cyril window closes and before the reign of GWS and GC start to kick in with their AFL contrived All Star squads.

As I indicated, I'm not against moving him on for the reasons you've indicated, I am however a little concerned that we didn't appropriately gauge Hawthorn's level of interest to get their man before the window closes on them.

How many All Australian full back's with Lake's credentials are available to be traded at the same time a premiership favourite still hurting and realising its primary obstacle in achieving its goal is to address its key defender deficiency to combat the 2013 threat of your Tippett's, Reid's, Kennedy's, Darling, Cox, Cloke etc in reaching its goal ?

Based on the potential / perceived reward vs risk for them I feel they got him for unders and would've gone higher when push came to shove.

[jeemak]

Re: Brian Lake to Hawthorn

Doc26, rate your work.

I suppose Hawthorn have been parading him around and beating their chests because it is the perfect good news story for them to help get their supporters over the heartache of losing a grand final. They needed a good news story fast, and landing Lake provided that.

My perception of the deal was that Hawthorn didn't have a lot to pay with, and we securred the most realistic highest bid they could table, in lieu of them wanting to hit this draft period with a pick higher than 41.

IMO, the Hawks also had a very strong card to play, which was the Bulldogs no longer wanting Lake and Lake no longer wanting the Bulldogs.

I also don't think some people around here give the Hawks level of pragmatism enough thought. They know that securring Brian Lake is a crucial but yet small piece of the puzzle for making the top four next year. They have many areas in which they need to take another step forwards in considering Sydney's play for Tippett, and the fact the competition evolves and chews teams like the Hawks up for breakfast on a yearly basis. They aren't in a position to offer up quality players for higher draft picks in order to keep their list balanced.

[Doc26]

Re: Brian Lake to Hawthorn

Doc26, rate your work.

I suppose Hawthorn have been parading him around and beating their chests because it is the perfect good news story for them to help get their supporters over the heartache of losing a grand final. They needed a good news story fast, and landing Lake provided that.

My perception of the deal was that Hawthorn didn't have a lot to pay with, and we securred the most realistic highest bid they could table, in lieu of them wanting to hit this draft period with a pick higher than 41.

IMO, the Hawks also had a very strong card to play, which was the Bulldogs no longer wanting Lake and Lake no longer wanting the Bulldogs.

I also don't think some people around here give the Hawks level of pragmatism enough thought. They know that securring Brian Lake is a crucial but yet small piece of the puzzle for making the top four next year. They have many areas in which they need to take another step forwards in considering Sydney's play for Tippett, and the fact the competition evolves and chews teams like the Hawks up for breakfast on a yearly basis. They aren't in a position to offer up quality players for higher draft picks in order to keep their list balanced.

All this is what the left side of my brain is trying very hard to tell my right side. I think it's just made worse because I have this deep down thing against Hawthorn and a fear that we've given them a free leg up.

As for pragmatism, this as a Bulldog lifer is a bitter pill.

[jeemak]

Re: Brian Lake to Hawthorn

All this is what the left side of my brain is trying very hard to tell my right side. I think it's just made worse because I have this deep down thing against Hawthorn and a fear that we've given them a free leg up.

I've been fighting off Hawthorn loathing over the last two days. I grew up in the South Eastern suburbs in Wheelers Hill, only a few minutes walk to Waverley, the place where I'd sneak in to on school holidays to play gang tiggy, and watch some great football that is now the centre for Hawthorn wankerdom!

Hawks fans have replaced any other club I can name to become the most self-entitled whinging creatures known to AFL. They can't separate the fact that Buddy is a good footballer, from themselves being arrogant twats in many cases.

While I was sad to see my Hawthorn friends suffer on GF day, I was happy that Sydney won. Losing Lake hurt me, and seeing him in a Hawthorn jumber hurts me a lot as well.

[Doc26]

Re: Brian Lake to Hawthorn

I've been fighting off Hawthorn loathing over the last two days. I grew up in the South Eastern suburbs in Wheelers Hill, only a few minutes walk to Waverley, the place where I'd sneak in to on school holidays to play gang tiggy, and watch some great football that is now the centre for Hawthorn wankerdom!

Hawks fans have replaced any other club I can name to become the most self-entitled whinging creatures known to AFL. They can't separate the fact that Buddy is a good footballer, from themselves being arrogant twats in many cases.

While I was sad to see my Hawthorn friends suffer on GF day, I was happy that Sydney won. Losing Lake hurt me, and seeing him in a Hawthorn jumber hurts me a lot as well.

I hear you. Living out east my whole life, which would as it seem be the epicentre for their breeding colony, I was made to feel like some downtrodden little poor kid forced to live vicariously through all their 'unworthy' premiership glory. I was brought up pretty well not to think poorly of anyone but actualy I do detest that bunch.

[jeemak]

Re: Brian Lake to Hawthorn

All this is what the left side of my brain is trying very hard to tell my right side. I think it's just made worse because I have this deep down thing against Hawthorn and a fear that we've given them a free leg up.

As for pragmatism, this as a Bulldog lifer is a bitter pill.

I hear you. Living out east my whole life, which would as it seem be the epicentre for their breeding colony, I was made to feel like some downtrodden little poor kid forced to live vicariously through all their 'unworthy' premiership glory. I was brought up pretty well not to think poorly of anyone but actualy I do detest that bunch.

Brilliant point, in bold. It really is a fact of our chosen football perversion that pragmatism must be at its forefront!

You were brought up well, it seems, if that was the basis of your upbringing living amongst those folk.

[Dry Rot]

Re: Brian Lake to Hawthorn

So why then are Hawthorn so overjoyed to have finally landed their man being ~3 years in the making ? It's night and day if one compares the reaction from each Club's supporter bases.

I still rate Lake's currency and obviously so does Hawthorn. As for his durability, 2011 I'm putting down as one of those years that does happen, aside from this season he's held up extremely well and the value he can provide Hawthorn over the next 2 years is potentially very signifcant given their obvious deficiency down back.

As we well know, premierships don't come around easily and they are desperate coming off a loss they expected to win. They are right in their premiership window and realise they need to capitalise now before their Buddy and Cyril window closes and before the reign of GWS and GC start to kick in with their AFL contrived All Star squads.

As I indicated, I'm not against moving him on for the reasons you've indicated, I am however a little concerned that we didn't appropriately gauge Hawthorn's level of interest to get their man before the window closes on them.

How many All Australian full back's with Lake's credentials are available to be traded at the same time a premiership favourite still hurting and realising its primary obstacle in achieving its goal is to address its key defender deficiency to combat the 2013 threat of your Tippett's, Reid's, Kennedy's, Darling, Cox, Cloke etc in reaching its goal ?

Based on the potential / perceived reward vs risk for them I feel they got him for unders and would've gone higher when push came to shove.

Agreed. I'm afraid to say Sheedy was right, we are a joke of a club. The more I think about it, the more amateurish our efforts were with this.

But it's done now. But the same clowns are handling the potential Dawes trade.

[jeemak]

Re: Brian Lake to Hawthorn

Agreed. I'm afraid to say Sheedy was right, we are a joke of a club. The more I think about it, the more amateurish our efforts were with this.

But it's done now. But the same clowns are handling the potential Dawes trade.

DR, I know it seems I might be targeting your posts (which to a point, I am I suppose), but do you really think all things considered that we're a joke of a club?

I could handle it if you were going on the basis of something other than the ramblings of that scorned overreactor, but to agree with that assessment, particularly in the context in which it was made is a bit much for me.

[Dry Rot]

Re: Brian Lake to Hawthorn

DR, I know it seems I might be targeting your posts (which to a point, I am I suppose), but do you really think all things considered that we're a joke of a club?

I could handle it if you were going on the basis of something other than the ramblings of that scorned overreactor, but to agree with that assessment, particularly in the context in which it was made is a bit much for me.

We rolled over on day 1 of the trade period on a deal that meant so much more for the Hawks than us in the next couple of years.

We seemed to be sweating on a player agent's ultimatum, when we were in the box seat where it wouldn't make much difference if Lake walked next year, if he was able. Yes, maybe he would be spent, or maybe not.

After thinking about this, this was a a really poor negotiation and and we are a joke. I'm not against trading Lake per se, but rather how we did it.

[Dry Rot]

Re: Brian Lake to Hawthorn

DR, I know it seems I might be targeting your posts (which to a point, I am I suppose),

Why?

And if you are, do you agree we should delist Conney?

[jeemak]

Re: Brian Lake to Hawthorn

Doc26, rate your work.

I suppose Hawthorn have been parading him around and beating their chests because it is the perfect good news story for them to help get their supporters over the heartache of losing a grand final. They needed a good news story fast, and landing Lake provided that.

My perception of the deal was that Hawthorn didn't have a lot to pay with, and we securred the most realistic highest bid they could table, in lieu of them wanting to hit this draft period with a pick higher than 41.

IMO, the Hawks also had a very strong card to play, which was the Bulldogs no longer wanting Lake and Lake no longer wanting the Bulldogs.

I also don't think some people around here give the Hawks level of pragmatism enough thought. They know that securring Brian Lake is a crucial but yet small piece of the puzzle for making the top four next year. They have many areas in which they need to take another step forwards in considering Sydney's play for Tippett, and the fact the competition evolves and chews teams like the Hawks up for breakfast on a yearly basis. They aren't in a position to offer up quality players for higher draft picks in order to keep their list balanced.

Fair enough.

I suppose the compensation we settled for might point to what Hawthorn were realistically able to source and willing to pay, but also to our contentment to see the back of Lake and his extremely large contract (and maybe his attitude).

It's OK for us to hold firm and demand higher compensation, but what would be the point in Hawthorn trading out a player or players capable of securring a first round pick to land Lake and unsettling their list? They're already under pressure to retain Young, Murphy and Gillham.

Perhaps we have differing views on Hawthorn's summation of Lake's potential impact, rather than the urgency of Hawthorn's situation.

I truly believe that leaving them with pick 41 as their first live pick would be completely unnacceptable to them, meaning they would have to trade a depth player as a minimum to gain a pick in the top 30, to potentially snare a player they had in mind. Losing any such player might not be supplemented by the recruitment of Lake.

While the Hawks have undeniable star power in certain areas of the ground, they rely on a system that sees medium tier players (and in some cases depth players) as being extremely valuable to their success.

We rolled over on day 1 of the trade period on a deal that meant so much more for the Hawks than us in the next couple of years.

We seemed to be sweating on a player agent's ultimatum, when we were in the box seat where it wouldn't make much difference if Lake walked next year, if he was able. Yes, maybe he would be spent, or maybe not.

After thinking about this, this was a a really poor negotiation and and we are a joke. I'm not against trading Lake per se, but rather how we did it.

Why?

And if you are, do you agree we should delist Conney?

I was only isolating your most recent posts.

There's a couple of Lake threads going around, but from this one the above (excuse the order of quoting, and my tendency to use the word suppose) pretty much sums up my thoughts on the trade. While I won't say I'm entirely happy with the outcome, I guess my views are borne from the perspective we got the only currency that we could use from Hawthorn in the initial deal. Anything else would have seen Hawthorn offering us pesos, when all we can actually spend or use is dollars.

As far as delisting Cooney we'll have to wait and see when his contract is up, and whether we can get anything for him. Adam Cooney is the only player on our list that is a completely rare talent. If able to play unincumbered by injury, he would easily be a top five player in the competition. He is that good.

Sure his knee is degenerative, and it's likely we're going to have to either play him in an extremely limited role after this year, or not at all. But because of his age and contract status, and his innability due to injury to be seen as attractive trade in at another club we're going to have to do all we can to get the most out of him while we can. We're in a reasonable place to do so right now, while he is contracted, but if he doesn't produce in either a modified role, from and attitude and role perspective this year then I'm afraid we'll have to let him go.

It's a big catch 22 for the club. He plays well we keep him, and forego any trade overtures for now. If he keeps playing well as he ages, we have another hard decision to make.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Brian Lake to Hawthorn

Ryan Griffen is a pretty rare talent.

[Hotdog60]

Re: Brian Lake to Hawthorn

Ryan Griffen is a pretty rare talent.

Ryan is a special player which over the last few years has become more consistent in his performances. I think we need the likes of Cooney or if someone can step up to his level to take some of the attention off Ryan.

Cooney may still have the talent to take the number one tagger if he can stay on the park in the midfield.