Our Defense - a major problem

[Bornadog]

We have major problems in the backline and its going to take some time to fix it. To me other than the midfield, the backline is one of the most important parts of the team.

If you have a solid backline, it goes along way to winning games.

So who is going well and what is needed:

1. Roughead - He is a long way off being a top fullback. The last three games he has been thrashed. Was totally lost against Geelong, beaten and had to be moved. Against WC, again beaten and last night again didn't look comfortable at all and lots of goals kicked against him. I am starting to think he should be our second ruck.

2. JJ - Young still learning, and lots of potential

3. Tom Young - not a KPP, but a very good replacement for Hargrave, has been the surprise down there.

4. Picken - Should not be stuck playing in the back pocket on the smalls. I think he has been inconsistent and he is really not suited for this role.

5. Morris - He is really getting on, He is not the player he once was and not far off retirement for mine. Still a solid contributor buit how long has he got?

6. Austin/Markovic- stop gap only

7. Wood - I have been critical on this board from day one but was shot down by many - make up your own mind.

8. Goodes - A mature player that has done well. Has made some errors at times, but I think with a young team, he has helped us tremendously.


Missing

We really need a tall CHB. Tom Williams should be that player. Forget about sending him forward. But - can he stay on the park, that is the biggest issue.

We also need another HBF with pace that can deliver the ball well, a Gilbee type and a Harbrow type to take other small forwards to relieve Picken.

[SlimPickens]

Re: Our Defense - a major problem

My thinking is that without midfield pressure on the ball carrier you're all at sea. The back 6 have been under siege for the majority of the year and have tried their guts out.

Wouldn't have thought Roughy has been thrashed, in fact I thought he was quite good in a pure defensive role on Petrie yesterday.

There is no doubting we have lost a lot of talent and experience from the back 6 and it will take time to get the level of cohesion there. But that being said I don't care who you are if a team can run through the midfield unopposed and hit up a target no defensive unit will stop that.

[Mantis]

Re: Our Defense - a major problem

1. Roughead - He is a long way off being a top fullback. The last three games he has been thrashed. Was totally lost against Geelong, beaten and had to be moved. Against WC, again beaten and last night again didn't look comfortable at all and lots of goals kicked against him. I am starting to think he should be our second ruck.

How many?

[lemmon]

Re: Our Defense - a major problem

I'm still quite bullish about Roughy as a key back, I agree he's been beaten the last few weeks but I think a lot of the issue has been the guys around him. He is by no means agile but the problem is neither are Marko or Austin; they are all suited to picking up the same type: the slower, bigger key forward. Its been the athletic guy who has got off the chain, Daw last night and Darling against West Coast when Marko/Rough were exposed for lack of athleticism or Young exposed for a lack of size. Its why I think Williams has to go to Centre Half Back, he is an excellent foil for Rough and perfectly suited to these types.

Obviously it would be nice to have Tommy forward but he has proven in the past capable of playing key back on these athletic guys and its where he's really required at the moment. Unfortunately it means Cordy/Marko are gifted games as a key forward and second ruck until we draft one in (come on down Tom Boyd).

[ReLoad]

Re: Our Defense - a major problem

If my failing memory serves me well enough, Lakes first couple of years had more than plenty of shockers. So the jury is far from out.

Roughy is a kid and he has a lot to learn, he needs 2 more years in the spot before a decision is to be made.

Our big problem is we have no plan B.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Re: Our Defense - a major problem

We have major problems in the backline and its going to take some time to fix it. To me other than the midfield, the backline is one of the most important parts of the team.

If you have a solid backline, it goes along way to winning games.

So who is going well and what is needed:

1. Roughead - He is a long way off being a top fullback. The last three games he has been thrashed. Was totally lost against Geelong, beaten and had to be moved. Against WC, again beaten and last night again didn't look comfortable at all and lots of goals kicked against him. I am starting to think he should be our second ruck.

2. JJ - Young still learning, and lots of potential

3. Tom Young - not a KPP, but a very good replacement for Hargrave, has been the surprise down there.

4. Picken - Should not be stuck playing in the back pocket on the smalls. I think he has been inconsistent and he is really not suited for this role.

5. Morris - He is really getting on, He is not the player he once was and not far off retirement for mine. Still a solid contributor buit how long has he got?

6. Austin/Markovic- stop gap only

7. Wood - I have been critical on this board from day one but was shot down by many - make up your own mind.

8. Goodes - A mature player that has done well. Has made some errors at times, but I think with a young team, he has helped us tremendously.


Missing

We really need a tall CHB. Tom Williams should be that player. Forget about sending him forward. But - can he stay on the park, that is the biggest issue.

We also need another HBF with pace that can deliver the ball well, a Gilbee type and a Harbrow type to take other small forwards to relieve Picken.

This is a good thread and I like your thoughts. I am still to be convinced that Roughead is ideally placed at full back. He has done OK but nothing to write home about. More a stop gap key defender. I think the team would now be better served by moving Roughy forward to provide support to Jones and Stringer and as an occasional back up ruckman to Minson. I would prefer to revamp our defence by developing Talia and Roberts as our two key defenders.Your thoughts on Markovic, Austin and Young IMO are good. Young has been a terrific pick up but better suited to a back flank. Without Murphy the defence lacks class and experience apart from Morris. Morris is now struggling due to his long lay off through injury.
I would like to move Griffen to half back to give us the class, stability and maturity that is sadly lacking. This thought will have plenty of critics among woofers but without a strong defence I believe that we will continue to struggle. Our team is currently in tatters and a rework is urgently required.

[Dry Rot]

Re: Our Defense - a major problem

I still wonder about Jones at CHB.

I know this will get howled down and he can clunk a great mark, but I still don't think he's a natural forward.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Our Defense - a major problem

Our team is currently in tatters and a rework is urgently required.

Think we lack consistency, and are too leaning towards inside midfielders.
When you put Boyd, Griffen, Cooney, Murphy, Jones, Stringer, Lower, Liberatore, Dahlhaus in the same side, each of these players is quite capable from a stats point of view.
If we had 3 Nick Lowers in the team to just give us a base line of 4 quarter effort, our stars could shine a bit more.
Where is Stevens at again?

[Bornadog]

Re: Our Defense - a major problem

How many?

Petrie 3, Daw 1, Goldestien resting kicked a couple

[Greystache]

Re: Our Defense - a major problem

The backline is an issue no doubt, but I don't see why you think Roughead has been smashed the last few weeks. He got beaten against Geelong certainly, but against West Coast Kennedy got a couple in junk time in a thrashing, and Petrie kicked 3 from a massive number of entries directed to him and had minimal impact. I also struggle to see why Williams is a lock as a reliable CHB, he's played a handful of decent games there in his career and had routinely been protected from the best key forwards. If he was thrown in there now he would be badly exposed and a liability.

Talia would be in if his was fit which would keep Austin/Markovic out of there thankfully, but Morris is struggling and doesn't look too have a natural replacement at the moment. We need another creative half back that can defend, Tutt can't defend and Howard can't defend or kick, Wood hasn't improved, and Pearce doesn't look the right type either.

[lemmon]

Re: Our Defense - a major problem

The backline is an issue no doubt, but I don't see why you think Roughead has been smashed the last few weeks. He got beaten against Geelong certainly, but against West Coast Kennedy got a couple in junk time in a thrashing, and Petrie kicked 3 from a massive number of entries directed to him and had minimal impact.

I agree he hasn't been smashed but that doesn't tell the whole story. Roughy was on Daw for 3 of his goals and was beaten in the air on all three occasions.

[Greystache]

Re: Our Defense - a major problem

I agree he hasn't been smashed but that doesn't tell the whole story. Roughy was on Daw for 3 of his goals and was beaten in the air on all three occasions.

Really? I watched the replay and in order they were;

Markovic
Charity (down the field free kick while on Markovic)
Markovic
Austin
Roughead
Charity (Free kick for nothing apparently while on Roughead)

At best I'd give him a generous 2 on Roughead, but actually only best him once in the air.

[lemmon]

Re: Our Defense - a major problem

Really? I watched the replay and in order they were;

Markovic
Charity (down the field free kick while on Markovic)
Markovic
Austin
Roughead
Charity (Free kick for nothing apparently while on Roughead)

At best I'd give him a generous 2 on Roughead, but actually only best him once in the air.

Fair call, at the ground I thought his third was on Roughy, definitely remember him being on the mark but just checked the reply and it was Marko. Foxtel never replayed his last one so calling it charity is a bit harsh (unless you had a closer look at the ground, I couldn't see it). That's 5 for day against Rough (if all Petrie's goals came against Rough, I haven't checked and am happy to be proven wrong) its not a great result and had Majak kicked straighter it could have been worse. Phil Davis won the 'reverse Coleman' last year with 52 goals against, I would like to see Roughys goals against this year.

It sounds like I'm arguing against Roughy at full back but I'm not, as I said before we need another athletic tall so Roughy can match up on his type.

[Greystache]

Re: Our Defense - a major problem

Fair call, at the ground I thought his third was on Roughy, definitely remember him being on the mark but just checked the reply and it was Marko. Foxtel never replayed his last one so calling it charity is a bit harsh (unless you had a closer look at the ground, I couldn't see it). That's 5 for day against Rough (if all Petrie's goals came against Rough, I haven't checked and am happy to be proven wrong).

If I saw it right it was for a block, basically Roughead didn't get out of his way to allow him to mark uncontested, pretty much the umpire was looking for a way to get Daw another kick. I haven't watched Petrie's yet but he had a mountain of ball kicked to him and Roughy was probably responsible for many of Norf's rushed behinds.

[comrade]

Re: Our Defense - a major problem

Roughy is doing fine considering we give away so many unpressured inside 50s. Daw was given the ball on a platter because our midfielders were incapable of pressuring the delivery.

Our midfield is our biggest problem. Can't kick, can't spread, can't or won't play defensively. You could have Scarlett at full back and Buddy at full forward - we'd still get beaten with the midfield structure and personnel we have right now.