Rate Simon Dalrymple

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Rate Simon Dalrymple

Fair enough. I'm worried how he'll come back from two knees, surely has to affect his agility which was a strength of his.

You would think so, but a few positives are that he has a very low centre of gravity which typically helps players coming back from serious knee injuries in terms of mobility/agility (eg. Libba) and he's professional in his recovery/an absolute animal on the track.

He won't leave a stone unturned.

[mjp]

Re: Rate Simon Dalrymple

I was skeptical at the time but Smith is a superior player to Crozier in every aspect bar disposal (which IMO is overstated, especially when you factor in his goal kicking nous).

Disagree.

[Greystache]

Re: Rate Simon Dalrymple

I will never understand this.

A couple of weeks back he kicked 3 against Geelong in what was basically a match winning performance. I am biased as I just love the things that Crozier can do whereas I wonder what Smith does that is 'different' to the rest of our midfield. Not getting a regular game in that Fremantle midfield is not an embarrassment - they are good - and it is not as if there are any small forward spots up for grabs in that team. What position would Smith play in that team?

Anyway, why mention the war. I like Smith just fine but unless he can fix his kicking (and propensity for blowing knee ligaments) then suggesting he is a better player than Crozier is folly.

Crozier (when he can get a game) averages 10 possessions and less than a goal a game. There is nothing differentiating him from 50 other generic forward/mids and I'd suggest being out of contract next year would need a big year to avoid being delisted.

Smith can win the ball himself first and foremost and of the two I know who I'd prefer kicking for goal. Smith could play the same role at Fremantle but actually lay tackles, and in a better side kick more goals. Plus he can go through the midfield, and play a defensive role, none of which Crozier can do.

[Maddog37]

Re: Rate Simon Dalrymple

Too early to tell yet about Smith v Crozier. Very different players anyway.

[mjp]

Re: Rate Simon Dalrymple

Crozier (when he can get a game) averages 10 possessions and less than a goal a game. There is nothing differentiating him from 50 other generic forward/mids and I'd suggest being out of contract next year would need a big year to avoid being delisted.

Smith can win the ball himself first and foremost and of the two I know who I'd prefer kicking for goal. Smith could play the same role at Fremantle but actually lay tackles, and in a better side kick more goals. Plus he can go through the midfield, and play a defensive role, none of which Crozier can do.

Fremantle already have smith - his name is Matt De Boer. Hard at it, can kick a goal (tick), defensive forward (tick), can play as a midfield tagger (tick), can't kick (tick), supporters love him (tick), struggles to get a game in a good side...we can go back and forth forever on this but creative players who can create goals for themselves and their team-mates are worth gold. Our side is chock full of inside players with grunt but we collectively lack spread, vision and the ability to kick the ball inside 50m. Crozier would have played 40+ games by now if he was wearing a dogs (or saints, or tigers etc) jumper which would give us a better read on where he is at.

[Happy Days]

Re: Rate Simon Dalrymple

Fremantle already have smith - his name is Matt De Boer. Hard at it, can kick a goal (tick), defensive forward (tick), can play as a midfield tagger (tick), can't kick (tick), supporters love him (tick), struggles to get a game in a good side...we can go back and forth forever on this but creative players who can create goals for themselves and their team-mates are worth gold. Our side is chock full of inside players with grunt but we collectively lack spread, vision and the ability to kick the ball inside 50m. Crozier would have played 40+ games by now if he was wearing a dogs (or saints, or tigers etc) jumper which would give us a better read on where he is at.

I'd pick De Boer ahead of Crozier though. And Smith ahead of De Boer. If Smith is a bad kick then De Boer is an atrocious one, and he absolutely can't kick for goal like Clay can.

Is our team really "full" of Smith's type? Aside from Liberatore who really satiates our need for inside ball? Macrae and Bont are mainly outside players, Boyd is slipping, Griffen is both but is better as a reciever (because of his great kicking not because of any weakness), Wallis is more defensive, Picken is an outside stopper, anyone else? Sydney have at least 3 guys in their midfield rotation that can...ahem, crack in and win football. Contrary to popular belief, we aren't stacked with "inside ball animals"; Jong played serious games this year (!). TBB is right too, disposal deficiencies can be marginalised by sensible decision making, and it would be ridiculous to think that Smith is overtly poor in this area, or at least won't improve with playing time.

Besides, anyone think that Smith as a full time flanker wouldn't kick more goals than Crozier?

Retrospective drafting is stupid anyway.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Rate Simon Dalrymple

Fremantle already have smith - his name is Matt De Boer. Hard at it, can kick a goal (tick), defensive forward (tick), can play as a midfield tagger (tick), can't kick (tick), supporters love him (tick), struggles to get a game in a good side...we can go back and forth forever on this but creative players who can create goals for themselves and their team-mates are worth gold. Our side is chock full of inside players with grunt but we collectively lack spread, vision and the ability to kick the ball inside 50m. Crozier would have played 40+ games by now if he was wearing a dogs (or saints, or tigers etc) jumper which would give us a better read on where he is at.

Surprised you'd bring De Boer into discussions - he's purely a defensive player who kicks the odd goal. Smith is creative and dangerous when forward, as well as being able to apply the necessary defensive traits. I think you overrate Crozier - if he was that good, he'd simply have played more footy and his form in the seniors is a testament to this, and you underrate Smith who has been 'off the radar' due to his two knee injuries.

It is a myth to suggest 'he would have played 40 games with us' because we're lower on the ladder. Good players play games in any side - look at Hartung at Hawthorn (prior to injury), Anderson last year for Hawthorn (injured this year) and on the contrary look at Michie from Fremantle, he played 4? games for Melbourne this season.

[GVGjr]

Re: Rate Simon Dalrymple

2009 was a failure.

However he has nailed the last few draft.

[Bulldog4life]

Re: Rate Simon Dalrymple

Smith showed by his 4 goals in his first game that he could be a special player. I still think he will be. I don't think Crozier will be but who really knows.

[mjp]

Re: Rate Simon Dalrymple

Surprised you'd bring De Boer into discussions - he's purely a defensive player who kicks the odd goal. Smith is creative and dangerous when forward, as well as being able to apply the necessary defensive traits. I think you overrate Crozier - if he was that good, he'd simply have played more footy and his form in the seniors is a testament to this, and you underrate Smith who has been 'off the radar' due to his two knee injuries.

It is a myth to suggest 'he would have played 40 games with us' because we're lower on the ladder. Good players play games in any side - look at Hartung at Hawthorn (prior to injury), Anderson last year for Hawthorn (injured this year) and on the contrary look at Michie from Fremantle, he played 4? games for Melbourne this season.

Can I say that you under-rate Crozier and over-rate Smith?

Not sure how comparing Michie - who couldn't / can't play - with anyone helps? Alex Silvagni is also on the Dockers list and is a really good defender but he has hardly played at Freo either...he would be the best key back on our list and would play every week. Good players DONT always get a game. Pretty sure Will Langford has shown he is a good player this year at Hawthorn - as has Angus Litherland - yet both were at the club for FOUR YEARS before getting a game. Good players don't always get a game. In Hudson's last year at our club, Minson's form at Willi was pretty darned good but he still couldn't crack a game (maybe it was Hudson's second last year, who can remember). Minson has turned out to be OK and even made an AA side - the fact he was playing 2's was not a blight on his ability. Every case is different and I think the jury is out on the 'Jed Anderson is a good player' train as well...

As for form in the seniors - it isn't that easy. When every game you play has you on a knifes edge, playing peripheral roles, subbed in/out etc it is hard to settle and be part of it.

As an aside, I also would pick Smith ahead of De Boer but for me at least it would be a conversation...as for saying that De Boer is a purely defensive player, I am guess you haven't seen much of his work at state league level but the role he plays for Lyon in the senior team is one he plays to stay in the team...don't assume that is all he can do. His numbers per game (possessions AND goals) are almost an exact replica of Smiths (14 touches and .5 of a goal) but no point letting the reality of numbers get in the way of the conversation.

Crozier has the highest goal per game average of the 3 by the way. But again...

[Sedat]

Re: Rate Simon Dalrymple

Ever since that draft, I've kept a close eye on both Crozier and Smith. It is difficult to compare the two because they really are chalk and cheese. Smith is tracking well, injuries notwithstanding, but Crozier has made significant strides this season. He will never be a massive possession getter but then neither does Stephen Hill. However he is a beautiful kick, a smart decision maker and impacts positively with regard to score involvements. I think he has more upside than Smith - quite surprised by the lack of rating he has. I guess being in Freo he is out of sight out of mind somewhat.

The Crozier discussion actually reinforces Dalrymple's credentials and keen eye for talent. He would have picked Crozier if best available was the strategy - he selected Smith as best available type as requested by the coach.

[stefoid]

Re: Rate Simon Dalrymple

2009 was a failure.

However he has nailed the last few draft.

Not so much for the failure of the players we did pick but for the success of the ones we didn't - we could have picked literally anyone after howard and been better off on a needs OR best available policy. Of course we could have picked Carlisle. But we went for players that could kick - OK, a strategy I also agree with: addressing needs with decent picks. Pittard and Menzel both 200 gamers (barring injuries) that can kick were selected directly after Howard. Port and Geelong must have been high-fiving under each other under the table.

Tutt was seen as a rookie pick because he was basically a softball player with a good leg.

I don't mind a money ball approach of identifying under-appreciated skills and thereby getting effective players at bargain prices, but we identified kicking and then overpaid massively.

[GVGjr]

Re: Rate Simon Dalrymple

When you look at Dalrymples performance to date, the last 2 years Macrae, Stringer and Bontempelli top class. Add Dahl as a rookie and father sons Lbba, Waliis and Hunter and it looks great.

outside of this though Hrovat and Honey could be very good players, the rest either won't make it or have a lot to improve. The lack of any KPP's and I cannot see how his performance is any more than a basic pass

[The Doctor]

Re: Rate Simon Dalrymple

Dalrymple performance analysis here

http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?13225-Simon-Dalrymple-Performance-Analysis&highlight=dalrymple

[Remi Moses]

Re: Rate Simon Dalrymple

When you look at Dalrymples performance to date, the last 2 years Macrae, Stringer and Bontempelli top class. Add Dahl as a rookie and father sons Lbba, Waliis and Hunter and it looks great.

outside of this though Hrovat and Honey could be very good players, the rest either won't make it or have a lot to improve. The lack of any KPP's and I cannot see how his performance is any more than a basic pass

The not getting Carlisle or Black 09 draft is killing us.
The non career of Tom Williams has also hurt big time.
Very difficult job in a heavily compromised era to pick the eyes out of the draft.