2014 Game Day Round 10 - Gold Coast Suns V Western Bulldogs

[Bornadog]

Re: 2014 Game Day Round 10 - Gold Coast Suns V Western Bulldogs

From 2005 to 2007 we added 27 players to our list under Clayton and Eade (Eade was the football operations manager the entire period) those players on average would be 24-27 years old now, i.e. the nucleus of a premiership team, we have exactly 3 players still on our list- Higgins, Wood and Grant. That is 24 players that have since moved on. Of which only Harbow and Ward being players we saw value in, and Ward being the only one we should have managed to keep.


Our recruiting during that period has destroyed our list and is the reason we're where we are. Plenty of people are happy to deflect the blame for our failures off these two, but this 3 year period is the worst recruiting in history of our club. They were uncompromised drafts, all our first rounders were inside the top 11 picks, and we botched nearly all of our slections.

You can't include rookies unless they are upgraded. We added 19 not 27 including 1 in the pre-season Draft.

Of those 19, only 3 are still with us and 5 are with other clubs.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: 2014 Game Day Round 10 - Gold Coast Suns V Western Bulldogs

Some very good points there and obviously a key reason for our current malaise. For all his undeniable list management faults, Eade was an elite match-day coach and put together a game plan that was unique, successful, very attractive (secondary consideration but one important in luring lapsed members, better sponsors and better TV exposure) and ahead of its time - Geelong basically ripped off our game plan, perfected it and was able to overcome the reactionary game plans involving press/cluster/zones. If Eade/Clayton were able to develop both the quality and the depth of the list better, we would have had the perfect mix of innovation in game plan, attractive playing style and quality/depth of personnel - I would say the last point really prevented us from snagging a flag or two and not the game plan per se (it worked well enough for Geelong, who had the talent to execute it)

I would also argue that our current game plan is neither particularly unique nor is it particularly effective - it is certainly unattractive. Now is it because of personnel, or is it because other game plans have overtaken what we developed and implemented back in 2012? Hard to answer - probably a bit of both. What it does is place us in a very tricky position over the next 12-18 months - we really should be expecting continued linear improvement and finals action in 2015 followed by a sustained run of September action thereafter. The reality looks like we are light years away from this. I disagree with other people's assertion that our season is shot and we now have nothing to play for in 2014 - I think the next 3 months is a critically important phase in our development, and will answer many questions as to whether or not we are on the right path both with playing style and with personnel supported.

Good post, along with Grey's.

In terms of our recent drafting, have we drafted too many like players? I know we are a bit unlucky at times, in that we never seem to have a pick with an obvious quality tall available, but the fact is that through both drafting and trading/free agency we have not been able to address our lack of tall options forward or back. We have persisted with some average options (Cordy, Jones, Williams) since McCartney's arrival for basically no return. Going after Crameri last season was a good get, but he's simply not a first tall.

Our mids are mostly one paced too - another issue against sides with pace from the contest (Gold Coast).

Should we have taken Hrovat after already having got a number of quality smalls (Smith, Dahl, Hunter)?
Should we have taken Bonti after already having taken Macrae a year earlier?
Should we have taken Honeychurch after already having Dahl/Hunter/Hrovat/Smith?

I rate all of the above mentioned players, mind you, but the question is based around team balance. We have quite a lot of similar players, little in genuine outside pace/skill and very little in key positions. Macca has been on record for saying they wanted to significantly bolster the midfield, which they have done, but it hasn't exactly worked yet. The midfield has been pretty good, but we simply can't score and we can't stop the opposition from scoring when they get momentum - all largely due to personnel IMO.

[Greystache]

Re: 2014 Game Day Round 10 - Gold Coast Suns V Western Bulldogs

You can't include rookies unless they are upgraded. We added 19 not 27 including 1 pre-season Draft.

Of those 19, only 3 are still with us and 5 are with other clubs.

I can't count rookies as being drafted unless they work out? I didn't know there was such specific rules.

Only 3 players in 3 years out of 19 selections we considered worth keeping. Cut the stats anyway you like to suit your story, it's going to be a pathetic number regardless. Our recruiting prior and after Eade is about the only reason we can field a team.

[Bornadog]

Re: 2014 Game Day Round 10 - Gold Coast Suns V Western Bulldogs

I can't count rookies as being drafted unless they work out? I didn't know there was such specific rules..

You know rookies are for trialling players, they are not drafted until they are on the main list.

I am not saying its a great record, but you like to exaggerate.

[Sedat]

Re: 2014 Game Day Round 10 - Gold Coast Suns V Western Bulldogs

Our mids are mostly one paced too - another issue against sides with pace from the contest (Gold Coast).

Should we have taken Hrovat after already having got a number of quality smalls (Smith, Dahl, Hunter)?
Should we have taken Bonti after already having taken Macrae a year earlier?
Should we have taken Honeychurch after already having Dahl/Hunter/Hrovat/Smith?

I rate all of the above mentioned players, mind you, but the question is based around team balance. We have quite a lot of similar players, little in genuine outside pace/skill and very little in key positions. Macca has been on record for saying they wanted to significantly bolster the midfield, which they have done, but it hasn't exactly worked yet. The midfield has been pretty good, but we simply can't score and we can't stop the opposition from scoring when they get momentum - all largely due to personnel IMO.

You can add Prudden to that list as well. It still feels like we don't have the list management balance right - the balance in our list certainly felt a little off during the Rocket years and the Wallace years as well (I like to pretend the Rohde years never actually happened).

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: 2014 Game Day Round 10 - Gold Coast Suns V Western Bulldogs

Anyone else bloody annoyed at the backlash Picken has copped for his terrific job on Ablett?

McKenna is whinging like a three month year old baby, media outlets have mentioned it and the commentators on the day kept alluding to it.

WTF did Picken do that was so wrong/savage/out of norm? I saw Picken get smashed illegally a couple of times (O'Mera and Ablett), was anything done - absolutely not. I cannot believe Picken is being condemned when he did a FANTASTIC job on arguably the best of all time, or close to.

I can't stand the media/football world's puckering up for players like Ablett and co. It's as though nobody can accept that they CAN be beaten. No - just because Ablett had little influence on the game - there wasn't some underlying BS reason why.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2014 Game Day Round 10 - Gold Coast Suns V Western Bulldogs

Anyone else bloody annoyed at the backlash Picken has copped for his terrific job on Ablett?

McKenna is whinging like a three month year old baby, media outlets have mentioned it and the commentators on the day kept alluding to it.

WTF did Picken do that was so wrong/savage/out of norm? I saw Picken get smashed illegally a couple of times (O'Mera and Ablett), was anything done - absolutely not. I cannot believe Picken is being condemned when he did a FANTASTIC job on arguably the best of all time, or close to.

I can't stand the media/football world's puckering up for players like Ablett and co. It's as though nobody can accept that they CAN be beaten. No - just because Ablett had little influence on the game - there wasn't some underlying BS reason why.

Just more BS journalism. It's an easy story to write, and for all that Picken still kept by the old school footballers code. If Ablett elbowed me in the face/nose that hard i'd be hanging him out to dry and watch Brownlow night erupt with a few free casino supplied crownies.

[Bornadog]

Re: 2014 Game Day Round 10 - Gold Coast Suns V Western Bulldogs

Anyone else bloody annoyed at the backlash Picken has copped for his terrific job on Ablett?

McKenna is whinging like a three month year old baby, media outlets have mentioned it and the commentators on the day kept alluding to it.

WTF did Picken do that was so wrong/savage/out of norm? I saw Picken get smashed illegally a couple of times (O'Mera and Ablett), was anything done - absolutely not. I cannot believe Picken is being condemned when he did a FANTASTIC job on arguably the best of all time, or close to.

I can't stand the media/football world's puckering up for players like Ablett and co. It's as though nobody can accept that they CAN be beaten. No - just because Ablett had little influence on the game - there wasn't some underlying BS reason why.

Now there are murmurs that the AFL wants to re look at the Brownlow and suspensions. Lets break more tradition and change the *!*!*!*!ing game

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2014 Game Day Round 10 - Gold Coast Suns V Western Bulldogs

Now there are murmurs that the AFL wants to re look at the Brownlow and suspensions. Lets break more tradition and change the *!*!*!*!ing game

That would be near the end of it for me. If that happens all brownlow's should be handed back into the AFL by outraged past winners who were fair and best. That would send me into TAC and VFL permanently just about. You can't change a fundamental tenant of the football culture/world/tradition etc. That someone could win it with 95 carryover points is stupid enough. You either were or were not guilty of a suspendable offence... It's not a hard or unreasonable concept...

[Remi Moses]

Re: 2014 Game Day Round 10 - Gold Coast Suns V Western Bulldogs

Anyone else bloody annoyed at the backlash Picken has copped for his terrific job on Ablett?

McKenna is whinging like a three month year old baby, media outlets have mentioned it and the commentators on the day kept alluding to it.

WTF did Picken do that was so wrong/savage/out of norm? I saw Picken get smashed illegally a couple of times (O'Mera and Ablett), was anything done - absolutely not. I cannot believe Picken is being condemned when he did a FANTASTIC job on arguably the best of all time, or close to.

I can't stand the media/football world's puckering up for players like Ablett and co. It's as though nobody can accept that they CAN be beaten. No - just because Ablett had little influence on the game - there wasn't some underlying BS reason why.

One thing that irks me is the hypocrisy of certain journos and fans.
It seems that a tagger in your side is much loved, but an opposition player tagging one of your own should be hung from the bootlaces.

[Bornadog]

Re: 2014 Game Day Round 10 - Gold Coast Suns V Western Bulldogs

That would be near the end of it for me. If that happens all brownlow's should be handed back into the AFL by outraged past winners who were fair and best. That would send me into TAC and VFL permanently just about. You can't change a fundamental tenant of the football culture/world/tradition etc. That someone could win it with 95 carryover points is stupid enough. You either were or were not guilty of a suspendable offence... It's not a hard or unreasonable concept...

Yep best and FAIREST

That is why players like Whitten, Matthews never won a brownlow

[Bornadog]

Re: 2014 Game Day Round 10 - Gold Coast Suns V Western Bulldogs



Only 1 win after a bye

[LostDoggy]

Re: 2014 Game Day Round 10 - Gold Coast Suns V Western Bulldogs

Just more BS journalism. It's an easy story to write, and for all that Picken still kept by the old school footballers code. If Ablett elbowed me in the face/nose that hard i'd be hanging him out to dry and watch Brownlow night erupt with a few free casino supplied crownies.

IMO Picken should go to the Brownlow this year. When Gary wins, Liam can shadow him to the altar, get in a quick elbow, and CH7 can go to an ad break.

[LostDoggy]

Re: 2014 Game Day Round 10 - Gold Coast Suns V Western Bulldogs

Anyone else bloody annoyed at the backlash Picken has copped for his terrific job on Ablett?

McKenna is whinging like a three month year old baby, media outlets have mentioned it and the commentators on the day kept alluding to it.

WTF did Picken do that was so wrong/savage/out of norm? I saw Picken get smashed illegally a couple of times (O'Mera and Ablett), was anything done - absolutely not. I cannot believe Picken is being condemned when he did a FANTASTIC job on arguably the best of all time, or close to.

I can't stand the media/football world's puckering up for players like Ablett and co. It's as though nobody can accept that they CAN be beaten. No - just because Ablett had little influence on the game - there wasn't some underlying BS reason why.

Not sure if you saw AFL 360 the other night when Bob Murphy was on, but he clearly got frusrtated with this exact thing. He made sure everyone was aware that Picken copped his own fair share of hits throughout the game.

Has not receieved any credit which is really disappointing.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Re: 2014 Game Day Round 10 - Gold Coast Suns V Western Bulldogs

Yep best and FAIREST

That is why players like Whitten, Matthews never won a brownlow

yes and its actually the Fairest and Best.