Post-flag plummet was always possible

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

How many good games did Boyd play in 2017 and how many did Murphy play in 2016? To me it's an inaccurate excuse Grant has offered that indicates that the two of them were prime movers in both 2016 and 2017. Also did we not know they were retiring? Given we have a huge number of back flanker types on the list I'd say we had them covered.

I get why some want to believe whatever the club says but no one has said anything close to convince me that the club expected or at least planned for a slide.

From memory, Bevo at least, was saying Bob & Wallis coming back into the side off long term injuries in 2017 would make us a better side. Then there's Grant's comments. Both can't be right as we were either going to be better to get two better players back which would enhance our success, or we were planning for a potential free fall in spite of getting these guys back into the starting 22.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

How many good games did Boyd play in 2017 and how many did Murphy play in 2016? To me it's an inaccurate excuse Grant has offered that indicates that the two of them were prime movers in both 2016 and 2017. Also did we not know they were retiring? Given we have a huge number of back flanker types on the list I'd say we had them covered.

I get why some want to believe whatever the club says but no one has said anything close to convince me that the club expected or at least planned for a slide.

What would you be happy with him saying, and what should we have done differently ?

[Sedat]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

So the club should have tempered expectations immediately after winning a flag. Makes sense, wouldn’t have been mauled by all and sundry at all!

There's a way to temper expectations and sell the message in a positive manner. It is called communication.

Phrases like "we are still very much a work in progress" and "we need to keep investing heavily in bringing in new talent to the club via the draft and trades" convey positivity but also temper external expectations in line with our internal analysis. And we would not have sold one less membership.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

There's a way to temper expectations and sell the message in a positive manner. It is called communication.

Phrases like "we are still very much a work in progress" and "we need to keep investing heavily in bringing in new talent to the club via the draft and trades" convey positivity but also temper external expectations in line with our internal analysis. And we would not have sold one less membership.

That's a good point, would've been a better strategy.

[The Pie Man]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

There's a way to temper expectations and sell the message in a positive manner. It is called communication.

Phrases like "we are still very much a work in progress" and "we need to keep investing heavily in bringing in new talent to the club via the draft and trades" convey positivity but also temper external expectations in line with our internal analysis. And we would not have sold one less membership.

TBF, Jason McCartney did just that (in bold) I think on trade radio, spring 2016

Just a rumour I heard, but it would support the lack of effort evident...heard a few in the group are still sore from the manner of Jake Stringers exit.

[azabob]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

The interesting thing for me is Beveridge's speech at the season launch in March. In particular the quote below

"I’m not going to urge you to be patient, I won’t urge you to be excited. I won’t urge you to be supportive or even optimistic".

In isolation it be appears to be nothing, but if you actually listen to how he delivers it, for me it takes on another meaning.
Basically saying we need to be patient and supportive as 2018 will be a tough year.

I thought at the time it wasn't very uplifting or optimistic and was quite subdued. However I didn't want to think too much of it as I was certain we'd return to top 4 calculations.

Over the last few weeks that speech has been playing over in my head and I'm starting to think Beveridges expectations for 2018 weren't great and we'd be lucky to play finals.

The club clearly has dropped the ball big time off field - not some much commercially but it can't be denied that we have messed up a number of Football Admin / management decisions since MID 2016.

It all started with the moving on of Brett Montgomery, rotating the assistant coaches, Graham Lowe moving on, Chris Maple's role chopping and changing, gifting Hamling to Fremantle, letting the players come back in poor condition physically and mentally for the 2017 season & being unable to correct it, the fascination with players being flexible and playing in multiple positions, being unable to manage the dynamic between Jason McCartney & Simon Dalrymple which ultimately left our list in the hole.

Chris Grant started on the board as non executive Football Director and was appointed Director of Football in mid 2016 to oversee the mens (AFL & VFL) 7 womens team. Did this appointment lead to Graham Lowe having less responsibility and decision making power?

Luke Beveridge is on public record saying how important and how much support Graham Lowe provided him in 2015 & 2016. To have a Football GM leave in the February of the next year after wining a flag is unheard of!!

Why after wining the VFL premierships in 2014 & 2016 did we change the head coach? Both times Chris Maple and Ashley Hanson were given new rolls within the club. Chris Maple in particular was put in charge of the VFL team because of his development capabilities of younger players.

Have our younger players come on as expected? It would be hard to argue that they have.

In isolation these changes are not huge but when each one is added up and to have occurred within the space of 18 months it is a lot of instability.

We have gone from the coach saying birth certificates don't mean anything to now using youth as an excuse for poor skills, not staying in games for long enough and losing games. Clearly we have an issue with goal kicking, structure, ability to follow a game plan, we lack desire for the contest and lack desire for the man.

I fear for the 2nd half of the season, I can't see us wining another game for 2018. Forget about trying to secure a free agent to fix this mess. The entire club needs to roll up their sleeves and work our butts off to move forward again. As I for one hate 4.40 Sunday games...

[Bornadog]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

Good Post Aza, although I don't really agree on the off field stuff as every club has senior managers come and go, but could have been more disruptive than we thought.

In hindsight (and I may have even posted this), we should have turned over a few assistants and at least brought in a senior person to replace Monty and help Bevo. I remember Rocket telling me a few things about Monty which were less than favourable, so maybe there was something in that and the reason for his sudden departure before the 2016 finals.

I think also you are right about the season launch, Bevo's speech was not outstanding this year, and seemed a little flat.

[GVGjr]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

What would you be happy with him saying, and what should we have done differently ?

I'm not trying to shape opinions, I really want to read something that adequately explains what Grant is actually saying.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

I'm not trying to shape opinions, I really want to read something that adequately explains what Grant is actually saying.

There's nothing. It's spin. But what we fail to recognise is that with spin (see the draft propaganda video last year too) is that for spin to work effectively most people have to buy what you're selling. Whomever is feeding Grant these talking point narratives, and the draft video narrative, needs to be sacked. I'm not sure how many people will buy this, and there's certainly no adequate explanation for what Grant said other than our PR/media comm's person has given him a howler of a spin line to try to sell.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

I'm not trying to shape opinions, I really want to read something that adequately explains what Grant is actually saying.

Maybe I'm insane, but it's not an encoded message.

[GVGjr]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

Maybe I'm insane, but it's not an encoded message.

To me it's not consistent with previous messages from the club. It's trying to say the poor performances this year was all part of the plan.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

To me it's not consistent with previous messages from the club. It's trying to say the poor performances this year was all part of the plan.

Fair enough I see what you're saying .

[G-Mo77]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

There's nothing. It's spin. But what we fail to recognise is that with spin (see the draft propaganda video last year too) is that for spin to work effectively most people have to buy what you're selling. Whomever is feeding Grant these talking point narratives, and the draft video narrative, needs to be sacked. I'm not sure how many people will buy this, and there's certainly no adequate explanation for what Grant said other than our PR/media comm's person has given him a howler of a spin line to try to sell.

You'll have to refresh my memory on that one. Was it the one where we wanted to take Porter at 16 and were happy to take him at 70ish?

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

You'll have to refresh my memory on that one. Was it the one where we wanted to take Porter at 16 and were happy to take him at 70ish?

That video. Of the 1,000 or so draft nominees to the draft, we only wanted 3 players out the entire 1,000 players. And we got exactly those three. Get the results first, and then say overly specifically it was the exact plan. One of the finest propaganda pieces of the 21st century. I hope they don't insult the intelligence of the many again this year.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Post-flag plummet was always possible

That video. Of the 1,000 or so draft nominees to the draft, we only wanted 3 players out the entire 1,000 players. And we got exactly those three. Get the results first, and then say overly specifically it was the exact plan. One of the finest propaganda pieces of the 21st century. I hope they don't insult the intelligence of the many again this year.

This kind of rubbish is making this forum less and less attractive. Just move on to another side.