Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

[The Doctor]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

The guys running the club steering us to the bottom is a really silly and ill thought out comment.

Is it really?

[Bornadog]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

.

Is it really?

Nice bump doc

Absolutely no improvement. Played a team today with average games of 22 compared to our 67

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

.

Nice bump doc

Absolutely no improvement. Played a team today with average games of 22 compared to our 67

Makes it hard to use the inexperience line with that stat. Either we're not developing as we had hoped or our skills are horrible, or both. Or today was a once off maybe?

[Remi Moses]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

Is it really?

We're on the bottom because of our insipid recruiting over a period of time.
To intimate that McCartney's " sending us to the bottom" is complete rubbish.
Our best players today were players who came in on His watch
We've acknowledged we need more skill and run in the side and a better forward line .
If they're still in this situation this time next season then I expect the heat will be intense .
To put the blame of the current predicament on the coach only is just plain Wrong.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

Makes it hard to use the inexperience line with that stat. Either we're not developing as we had hoped or our skills are horrible, or both. Or today was a once off maybe?

We've got top line experience in a few players then we've got bugger all in the middle and then there is the kids. Footballers as a rule are not comfortable in their own skin until about 70 to 100 games.
We must just keep drafting our own and for the love of god bring in run skill and kicking please.

[GVGjr]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

Makes it hard to use the inexperience line with that stat. Either we're not developing as we had hoped or our skills are horrible, or both. Or today was a once off maybe?

Even Sheedy acknowledged that were were playing a very young side. It's a combination of a few things I suspect.

- Short sighted recruiting leaving a significant gap in the playing list.

- The class of 2008 which should be coming into their prime is all but missing. Only Grant and Wood remain with Ward and Reid at GWS and O'Keefe and Boumann not in the AFL.
Rookies, Mulligan, White and Shaw never really made it and Scott Welsh a short term option.

- In 2009 we took just 3 players on the primary list. Cordy via father son, Roughead and Jones. We got Daniels on the rookie list and Williamstown hit a home run for us by offering to pay Pickens wage if we promoted him.

In 2010 we really got it wrong, Howard, Tutt, Markovic and Thorne on the senior list.
Moles, Hooper, Panos and Prato on the rookie list.

I suspect gaps like this aren't quickly addressed and is a large part of why we are in the predicament we are in.

We had a huge increase in our footy department resources this year and while I was very hopeful we would see some improvement it certainly hasn't helped our skill level and decision making yet.

Plenty of work to do to address a flat footed team with skill level issues especially when under pressure.

[The Doctor]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

We're on the bottom because of our insipid recruiting over a period of time.

agree

To intimate that McCartney's " sending us to the bottom" is complete rubbish.

Disagree

He's not exactly sending us to the top or even mid table. We were with a goal or two of being the AFL'S new basket case and odds on to be favorite for the wooden spoon next year. If all of the current 16 coaches were out in a draft I would wager my house that he would be pick 18, or pass.

Our best players today were players who came in on His watch

Agree

But if your team gets high draft picks because it is a poor team you would expect to get decent players at the top end of the draft.

We've acknowledged we need more skill and run in the side and a better forward line .
To put the blame of the current predicament on the coach only is just plain Wrong.

I don't blame the coach for the problems with the list. I acknowledge he has tried hard to address this however I don't think he has brought enough balance to the recruiting and he has had two drafts to help amend this.

If they're still in this situation this time next season then I expect the heat will be intense .
.

The heat is on now. Few of us can see that he will turn around our fortunes this time next year.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

So what's you solution?
Sack the coach and appoint a new one?
If so, and we're struggling next season you'll want the new coach sacked ?

He's had 2 drafts, one heavily compromised and the other lauded by people in the know.
Two of our best players were our first two picks in the heavily compromised 2011 draft
Talia and Smith.
I agree we're over compensated by the same type of mid, and need to address the imbalance .

[Remi Moses]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

Even Sheedy acknowledged that were were playing a very young side. It's a combination of a few things I suspect.

- Short sighted recruiting leaving a significant gap in the playing list.

- The class of 2008 which should be coming into their prime is all but missing. Only Grant and Wood remain with Ward and Reid at GWS and O'Keefe and Boumann not in the AFL.
Rookies, Mulligan, White and Shaw never really made it and Scott Welsh a short term option.

- In 2009 we took just 3 players on the primary list. Cordy via father son, Roughead and Jones. We got Daniels on the rookie list and Williamstown hit a home run for us by offering to pay Pickens wage if we promoted him.

In 2010 we really got it wrong, Howard, Tutt, Markovic and Thorne on the senior list.
Moles, Hooper, Panos and Prato on the rookie list.

I suspect gaps like this aren't quickly addressed and is a large part of why we are in the predicament we are in.

We had a huge increase in our footy department resources this year and while I was very hopeful we would see some improvement it certainly hasn't helped our skill level and decision making yet.

Plenty of work to do to address a flat footed team with skill level issues especially when under pressure.

Well said

[GVGjr]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

I don't blame the coach for the problems with the list. I acknowledge he has tried hard to address this however I don't think he has brought enough balance to the recruiting and he has had two drafts to help amend this.

I don't quite see how he can address the gaps he inherited in the list within two drafts.
I think there has been 3 consecutive years of a questionable draft and recruitment strategy and I just can't see how that can be quickly fixed.

Lets look at the 2 years since McCartney has arrived.
2011
Smith and Talia are should some positive signs. One a tough midfielder the other a developing key defender. Pearce hasn't done a lot and Dickson was our leading goal kicker last year. Roberts was always going to be a long term project.
Rookies, Jong, Campbell, Greenwood, Redpath and Austin.

While we can question the quality of some of the selections we have a ruckman, 2 key defenders, a key forward and 3 midfielder/flanker types which is a reasonably balanced list.

2012
Stringer, Macrae, Hrovat, Prudden and Hunter from the National draft seem like good selections and Stevens, Lower and Young were decent trade options with Goodes added as a rookie.

Overall I'd say we are addressing a lot of the list imbalances but no doubt we still have some gaps.

Yes, we could have got more creative with our draft picks and trades etc and yes we could have added some more run but I'm not sure this should be dropped solely on McCartney.

[comrade]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

Our drafting during 2006 - 2009 is the number 1 reason we're in our current predicament.

You can't burn through so many 1st and 2nd round draft picks for so little return and expect to be competitive.

Everitt, Grant, Cordy and Howard are all monumental fails. They should all be key members of our best 22 and, well, they're not.

[mighty_west]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

Our drafting during 2006 - 2009 is the number 1 reason we're in our current predicament.

You can't burn through so many 1st and 2nd round draft picks for so little return and expect to be competitive.

Everitt, Grant, Cordy and Howard are all monumental fails. They should all be key members of our best 22 and, well, they're not.

This...I have no doubt in my mind Macca took over a sinking ship and is currently addressing and slowing fixing things, no one possibly judge the past 2 drafts, far too early.

I also think Clayton really botched up quite a few drafts, choosing speculative picks up high (Williams, Wells etc), not to mention a host of first rounders as already pointed out.

Tom Williams, how on earth would anyone know if his body can withstand the riggers of AFL with next to no football as a child, Wells on the other hand had no football skills what so ever from the games I watched him in the VFL 2's, Tim Walsh, surely recruiters could work out that he had the heart of a pea and the ego not matched with his limited abilities.

[Bornadog]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

Yes we can all go through the past once more blah blah blah, we should have done this or that, but the issue is what do we do today? What is the solution? We have a list and we have to work out the best way to develop it.

For me the MC has got a lot of things wrong:

1. Didn't want Brian Lake because they thought Roughead is the future at fullback. Issue - we are robbed of another KPP - all be it for two years. ok past history we move forward.

2. Tom Williams - Forgetting the injuries - sticking him in the forward line???

3. Murphy in the backline - last season and now the past two weeks and probably the rest of the year. - robs us kicking goals.

4. Cooney - ditto

5. Picken - one of the best taggers in the AFL, third in best and fairest, - trying to make him into a back pocket - again doesn't work.

6. Cordy - ok, must give him a go, but he hasn't earned in - Gets injured, plays a weak game at Willi and marches straight into the team. Ok, didn't work, drop him this week.

7. Grant - enough said.

8. Keeping Vez on the list at the end of last year.

I can see what Macca is trying to do, by making these guys flexible, but gee it hasn't worked at all. Time for a rethink.

The rest of the year - lets find out what these guys are made of:

1. Pearce to come in and play back - replace JJ

2. Howard to come in and play back - release Murphy to forward line.

3. Roberts to be tried at FF

4. Grant to be tried at FP

5. Hunter and Hrovat- must play every week.

5. Perhaps some rookie upgrades and get Jong and Greenwood some senior experience. Maybe even Redpath?? Prudden hoefuly when he is recovered. I don't care if they have earnt a place in the seniors, just polay them, give them a taste and see if they will show soemthing.

We have to do something, the year is a write off again. We have won 9 matched in the past 37, an abysmal record.

Lest just keep blooding these players, keep the seniors players in to lead the way.

[Topdog]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

Oh to be able to draft in hindsight.

[Topdog]

Re: Williamstown v Werribee Round 3

5. Picken - one of the best taggers in the AFL, third in best and fairest, - trying to make him into a back pocket - again doesn't work.

6. Cordy - ok, must give him a go, but he hasn't earned in - Gets injured, plays a weak game at Willi and marches straight into the team. Ok, didn't work, drop him this week.

7. Grant - enough said.

These 3 really annoy the heck out of me. Picken is tried in a position which he cant play and is dropped because of it. Leave him play the tagging role as he is still in a good age group and would help us a lot.

Yep did nothing to earn a recall yet gets gifted one.

People say he hasn't done enough to get a recall but he isnt treated the same as Cordy who is gifted one.