2018 Tour of South Africa

[DOG GOD]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

Well after watching that train wreck, I have no doubt in my mind, Warner, smith and Bancroft were certainly not alone in this. CA sent two suits over to diffuse the situation. No way could they have come out that Lehmann, the bowlers and most likely the orange cutter were all involved in this....

[lemmon]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

Warner was very, very careful to not implicate himself as the ringleader. He's clearly not comfortable with what has become the accepted story - and Warner doesn't strike me as the type to go quietly.

I thought the punishment was harsh but it's the catalyst for a full clean out. I'm hoping they look at a coach from outside the system (not Langer) and illicit some real cultural change.

The next captain/coach partnership has more chance than any in recent history to dictate the culture of this side for the next 5, 10, 20 years.

[lemmon]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

Not sure if anyone saw much last night, but Warney giving it to Sayers was ridiculous.

Yes, he only bowls 130kph but he swung it and seamed it, just needed to get that line a bit straighter.

When he did, he looked extremely dangerous and removed De Villiers.

These stats are from Cricket Professor on Twitter:

"Chadd Sayers' average speed today is similar to Vernon Philander's in the series (around 127.5 km/hr) & gotten more swing (1.25° v 0.95°) & more seam (0.71° v 0.63°)."

[Sedat]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

Warner was very, very careful to not implicate himself as the ringleader. He's clearly not comfortable with what has become the accepted story - and Warner doesn't strike me as the type to go quietly.

I thought the punishment was harsh but it's the catalyst for a full clean out. I'm hoping they look at a coach from outside the system (not Langer) and illicit some real cultural change.

The next captain/coach partnership has more chance than any in recent history to dictate the culture of this side for the next 5, 10, 20 years.

Not much will change if the people that need to go to initiate real change are still there to make the changes. CA have made "cultural changes" 3 times previously under Sutherland's watch and nothing has changed - why the hell does he deserve another chance to initiate 'change'?

CA are a mess. It's not even about the players anymore - they are simply acting with the tacit approval and encouragement of their bosses.....until the sponsors start to run away

[lemmon]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

Not much will change if the people that need to go to initiate real change are still there to make the changes. CA have made "cultural changes" 3 times previously under Sutherland's watch and nothing has changed - why the hell does he deserve another chance to initiate 'change'?

CA are a mess. It's not even about the players anymore - they are simply acting with the tacit approval and encouragement of their bosses.....until the sponsors start to run away

Very fair points. Pat Howard's name is the other that I don't recall hearing through this mess.

[Twodogs]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

Not sure if anyone saw much last night, but Warney giving it to Sayers was ridiculous.

Yes, he only bowls 130kph but he swung it and seamed it, just needed to get that line a bit straighter.

When he did, he looked extremely dangerous and removed De Villiers.

These stats are from Cricket Professor on Twitter:

"Chadd Sayers' average speed today is similar to Vernon Philander's in the series (around 127.5 km/hr) & gotten more swing (1.25° v 0.95°) & more seam (0.71° v 0.63°)."

Similar to Glen McGrath. But McGrath had that metronomic accuracy as well, ball after ball on the same spot but each one acted a little differently to the last.

McGrath is the forgotten man of that era but he was the best bowler. Sure Warney was much more fun to watch with his unbelievable variety of leg spin but McGrath was the man who set up the wins by dismissing the class batsmen in the opposition.

[hujsh]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

Start Clark was similar as well. Not as good as McGrath at his best from all accounts but I never really saw much of McGrath at his best to really compare.

[Topdog]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

McGrath was the best.

No point listening to Warne about anything. He just says everything is wrong or bad.

Edit: Also if Warne wanted player x to play and player y gets selected he will spend the entire test match saying how poor player y is. Only interested in making himself sound good

[Twodogs]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

Start Clark was similar as well. Not as good as McGrath at his best from all accounts but I never really saw much of McGrath at his best to really compare.

563 wickets @ 21 and a half is a pretty good record. It was usually McGrath who would smash through the top 6 before wandering down to fine leg and watching Warnie bamboozle the rest. Opposition out for about 200 was usually the outcome then Taylor and Slater or Hayden and Langer would bat out the rest of the day.

Cricket was fairly simple back then.

[hujsh]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

563 wickets @ 21 and a half is a pretty good record. It was usually McGrath who would smash through the top 6 before wandering down to fine leg and watching Warnie bamboozle the rest. Opposition out for about 200 was usually the outcome then Taylor and Slater or Hayden and Langer would bat out the rest of the day.

Cricket was fairly simple back then.

Yeah I know that statistically McGrath is a marvel and way more impressive that Warne. I only really took an interest once the 2005 Ashes came along and that was when Warne was at some of his best and McGrath was injured for most of it.

[FrediKanoute]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

Sayers will murder England in 2019. If they think Jimmy Anderson is good, Sayers will show them what swing bowling is all about! The question is who do you play along side him - Hazelwood, Starc or Cummins.

[Twodogs]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

Yeah I know that statistically McGrath is a marvel and way more impressive that Warne. I only really took an interest once the 2005 Ashes came along and that was when Warne was at some of his best and McGrath was injured for most of it.

Did McGrath step on a ball during the warm up to the first test and tear his ankle ligaments? It's ironic that he puts so much strain on those exact ligaments absorbing most of the shock of his delivery stride thousands of times over his career but he steps on a ball and the joint falls apart.

TBH he could probably not bothered with the run up and just stood there and bowl just as effectively. McGrath was the type of player who just found a way.

[hujsh]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

Did McGrath step on a ball during the warm up to the first test and tear his ankle ligaments? It's ironic that he puts so much strain on those exact ligaments absorbing most of the shock of his delivery stride thousands of times over his career but he steps on a ball and the joint falls apart.

TBH he could probably not bothered with the run up and just stood there and bowl just as effectively. McGrath was the type of player who just found a way.

2nd test. Did well in the 1st

[Twodogs]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

I've just watched Ian Chappell and Mark Taylor defending CA and James Sutherland on channel 9. Honestly what was the point of having a CA board member (Taylor) and one of Surherland's mates (Chappell) on if they can't talk honestly (they couldn't even not talk bullshit about this topic) Chappell said the players would be silly to appeal because "people would boo them". You *!*!*!*!ing idiot Chappelli, you don't think they have to walk around the streets and talk to people? It's exactly the same thing.

This binary attitude (they are guilty kill them, they have done nothing wrong leave them alone) is a major part of the problem here. We need some perspective.

[ledge]

Re: 2018 Tour of South Africa

I think the penalty is right , could be the best thing to happen to cricket going forward.
No more bullshit fines, every country now will clamp down on it.
The first major movement in cleaning this sport up in the world.
Personally they deserve it not just for the ball tampering but the idiotic way they did it and the lies they have continued to tell to avoid the truth.
Bancroft first tried saying it was sunglass holder then it was tape and now it was sandpaper.
Warner continues to avoid anything asked about it and the CA has obviously told him to shut up so it must go further up.
Smith isn't a strong personality and making him captain I believe he was a huge mistake ( but who else did they have ?)
We keep hearing little leaks and the story changes every time.
The whole episode is more about the arrogance and bullying by CA and certain players culture. The ball tampering just shows how bad it got.
It's funny how now this happens all the experts said they knew something would happen the culture has been shit for two years!
This was needed to happen not just for the culture of Australian cricket but for the whole world of cricket.
Let's start the rebuild !
But I certainly don't want those three players in test cricket again.