Ricky Ponting

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Ricky Ponting

Isn't he more of a NZ type of all-rounder though? A fighter with the bat and steady with the ball. I actually see a lot of similarities between him and James Hopes but at least Hopes bats up the order a lot more.

Steve Waugh was a handy bowler but outside of one day cricket he wouldn't have played for Australia as a bowler in test cricket.
McDonald must have 15 batsman in front of him in shield cricket averages and I'd argue that he isn't being tested enough at number 6 for the Vics much like White the last couple of years. Most number 6's in the test side were batting at 4 and 5 for their shield side and then worked their way into the top 5 in the test side. I just can't see McDonald doing that. As I previously said, he is probably right in the mix for Sydney though.

McDonald is actually 10th on the Shield table for averages.

Those in front of him include Rohrer of NSW who has only played 1 match, Watson who is injured and Younis Khan who will probably not get picked for our test side.

The rest have taken 4 wickets between them this year.

Rohrer 166
Klinger 90.6
Rogers 82.6
Hughes 59.8
Younis Khan 50.8
Borgas 50.3
Watson 50
Carseldine 49.4
Bandy 47.5
McDonald 46.2

[Mantis]

Re: Ricky Ponting

Isn't he more of a NZ type of all-rounder though? A fighter with the bat and steady with the ball. I actually see a lot of similarities between him and James Hopes but at least Hopes bats up the order a lot more.

Steve Waugh was a handy bowler but outside of one day cricket he wouldn't have played for Australia as a bowler in test cricket.
McDonald must have 15 batsman in front of him in shield cricket averages and I'd argue that he isn't being tested enough at number 6 for the Vics much like White the last couple of years. Most number 6's in the test side were batting at 4 and 5 for their shield side and then worked their way into the top 5 in the test side. I just can't see McDonald doing that. As I previously said, he is probably right in the mix for Sydney though.

I wouldn't have thought so.

He moves the ball around both in the air and off the pitch.

He is also a fairly talented batsman who may not be ultra aggressive in his approach, but is normally very reliable. I don't think we would see him playing many of the 'loose' shots our current middle order are employing.

In another thread SS stated that McDonald is averaging 46 with the bat this year. I would think he would be well inside the top 10. ( I can't find a detailed list anywhere to confirm this)

[LostDoggy]

Re: Ricky Ponting

For every McGrath or Johnson you bring into the side there are always guys like Chris Matthews or Scott Muller who just don't and can't cut it.

Thats the point how do you know which way they will turn out? Its likely more that a bowler at 22 has got a lot more improvement in him through development than one at 32.
BTW I remember Merv Hughes debutting in the same game as Chris Matthews and he was ok.

[Ozza]

Re: Ricky Ponting

I wouldn't have thought so.

He moves the ball around both in the air and off the pitch.

He is also a fairly talented batsman who may not be ultra aggressive in his approach, but is normally very reliable. I don't think we would see him playing many of the 'loose' shots our current middle order are employing.

In another thread SS stated that McDonald is averaging 46 with the bat this year. I would think he would be well inside the top 10. ( I can't find a detailed list anywhere to confirm this)

Agree completely - and has performed well in tough matches for Victoria. I have a feeling he is a big game player and will rise to the challenge - and is a very genuine all rounder.

Also, he is a genuine wicket taker - great for breaking partnerships - and could be the bloke to toil into the breeze for a long time to keep Johnson and co. changing at the other end - would be very important to the balance of the side.

Would love to see 'Ron' get a chance in the baggy green.

[GVGjr]

Re: Ricky Ponting

McDonald is actually 10th on the Shield table for averages.

Those in front of him include Rohrer of NSW who has only played 1 match, Watson who is injured and Younis Khan who will probably not get picked for our test side.

The rest have taken 4 wickets between them this year.

Once again he is doing better than I expected average wise however, jumping on cricinfo for a browse is his top score really just 60no for the season?
If that is correct then he is more consistent than a genuine punisher of attacks at number 6.
The positives are that he puts a high value on his wicket and he does have some all-round ability because he bowls tight and snares a few wickets but I still think he needs to be stronger with his batting if he is to make it as a regular player at the next level.

[Mantis]

Re: Ricky Ponting

Once again he is doing better than I expected average wise however, jumping on cricinfo for a browse is his top score really just 60no for the season?
If that is correct then he is more consistent than a genuine punisher of attacks at number 6.

The positives are that he puts a high value on his wicket and he does have some all-round ability because he bowls tight and snares a few wickets but I still think he needs to be stronger with his batting if he is to make it as a regular player at the next level.

Season 08/09 (All 1st class games):

Batting

Symonds 13 innings, 247runs, HS: 57, 1 50, ave: 19.0

McDonald 8 innings, 324 runs, HS: 60*, 4 50's, ave: 46.3

Bowling

Symonds 6 wickets @ 21.8

McDonald 15 wickets @ 23.9

[Topdog]

Re: Ricky Ponting

Thats not true. It seems the bowlers are helping make a lot those runs. Also with these pitches being produced these days scoring 400 is no problem.
One experienced bowler is performing below standard, Mitchell is a second year player and the rest are first year. Blaming the bowling is BS.

Interesting theory but the reality shows that is complete BS. We get on average about 40-50 runs from our tail.

Losing Tait has hurt Australia more than anybody would like to admit but if the bowling is not up to standard their is no point blaming the batting. Ponting's captaincy has also left a lot to be desired but to be fair to him he is basically captaining his 5th test without having a gun bowling attack.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Ricky Ponting

Interesting theory but the reality shows that is complete BS. We get on average about 40-50 runs from our tail.

I'm obviously watching a different game. Hayden, Hussey and Symonds have been excellent.
Whats the average of our last 5 wickets lately? Just because they don't make big scores does mean they haven't help make totals.
Yes batting first and making only 400 on a perfect pitch where the bottom half made a lot of runs really inspires your bowlers too.

Losing Tait has hurt Australia more than anybody would like to admit

Yes Tait was the next Lillee 3 tests with an average of 60. Sure.

but if the bowling is not up to standard their is no point blaming the batting.

What? Cos they can make only 400 on flat decks but bowlers can't take wickets on these same flat deck?

Ponting's captaincy has also left a lot to be desired but to be fair to him he is basically captaining his 5th test without having a gun bowling attack.

Thats a cop out. His has captained just as many where his top order including himself has failed.

Let me get this straight because he relied on champion bowlers in the past to back up his batsman in the past when they failed, they can be excused now for continuing to fail?

[FrediKanoute]

Re: Ricky Ponting

Thats the point how do you know which way they will turn out? Its likely more that a bowler at 22 has got a lot more improvement in him through development than one at 32.
BTW I remember Merv Hughes debutting in the same game as Chris Matthews and he was ok.

I think its mostly in a bowler's head. Merv, McGrath, McDermott, Lillee, Thommo were all guys who were just plain nasty and gave the impression that they enojyed "hurting the opposition".

Its one of the things I like about Siddle. He has real grunt and will run in all day if he could and bowl nasty balls and smile about it.

On the opposite side of the scale you have Bracken or Tait who are both just too nice and not nasty about it. I think if you're going to bring a kid into the side you look for:

1) Talent (ie pace, bounce,angle and MOVEMENT)
2) Temperament - will they quit when they get hit for a boundary or do they follow it up with a nasty ball?

[azabob]

Re: Ricky Ponting

Interesting theory but the reality shows that is complete BS. We get on average about 40-50 runs from our tail.Losing Tait has hurt Australia more than anybody would like to admit but if the bowling is not up to standard their is no point blaming the batting. Ponting's captaincy has also left a lot to be desired but to be fair to him he is basically captaining his 5th test without having a gun bowling attack.

Sorry Topdog but it was reported in the Sunday Age that "in the last 12 months Australia's tail-its last four wickets has added an average of 106 runs in the 20 innings the Australian playing list had been required to bat". It goes onto say "in perth the 116 & 162 runs in each innings put on by the final four wickets accounted for a shade under half of the 532 runs complied by Australia's batsmen. Similar numbers happend in games in India and against NZ.
And im not sure Tait has hurt us, he can bowl fast, but can he move it?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Re: Ricky Ponting

Thats the point how do you know which way they will turn out? Its likely more that a bowler at 22 has got a lot more improvement in him through development than one at 32.
BTW I remember Merv Hughes debutting in the same game as Chris Matthews and he was ok.

Merv debuted against the Indians in 85. took 1-123. Chris Matthews the year after against the Poms, and bowled horrible, wide upon wide as he could not get his radar on track.. Merv was not exactly on fire in that series either. I think he produced one decent spell where he took 3-40 odd.
Merv didn't really hit his stride until the home series against the Windies in 88-89.

I agree with your sentiments though, I'd rather see Australia look to build for the next 6-10 years, and where possible look to bring younger guys in, rather than guys approaching or past 30.
Bollinger has 5 years left max at top level, and assuming he were to take a similar time to develop as say someone like Merv Hughes did, he would be almost 30 before hitting his straps.
I'd much prefer Hilfenhaus and Siddle be given opportunities over the next 18 months, than turning to Bollinger, Clark or Bracken.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Ricky Ponting

Can't pick Bollinger, he is bald and in Australia we prefer VB.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Re: Ricky Ponting

Can't pick Bollinger, he is bald and in Australia we prefer VB.

I thought he was a Kojak too, but he's grown it all back now. Maybe he's gone the 'Advanced Hair - Yeah Yeah' route?

[GVGjr]

Re: Ricky Ponting

I thought he was a Kojak too, but he's grown it all back now. Maybe he's gone the 'Advanced Hair - Yeah Yeah' route?

He certainly has gone down that road. He just might not be making the money that Matthews, Yallop, Gooch and co did.

[Topdog]

Re: Ricky Ponting

Sorry Topdog but it was reported in the Sunday Age that "in the last 12 months Australia's tail-its last four wickets has added an average of 106 runs in the 20 innings the Australian playing list had been required to bat". It goes onto say "in perth the 116 & 162 runs in each innings put on by the final four wickets accounted for a shade under half of the 532 runs complied by Australia's batsmen. Similar numbers happend in games in India and against NZ.
And im not sure Tait has hurt us, he can bowl fast, but can he move it?

thats including Haddin though who has made probably 80% of those runs. The keeper has been a strong batter for australia for a long time.