Ricky Ponting

[GVGjr]

Re: Ricky Ponting

GVGjr even those 2 spinners are in the 30s, I would have thought the series against NZ would have been perfect to bring in a younger spinner, thus giving him some sort of experience so they werent pulling one out of the blue for the ashes tour.
Actually they should have taken a young one to India, great place to learn.
Problem is we arent bringing in younger players as the older ones get close to retirement, its like we are filling in gaps with old players just to get through the year, and after that whats the plan?

They took Krejza and White to India after McGain was injured so they did go for the youngsters however, playing White as the sole spinner in a few tests was just a poor selection policy.

After Casson toured the West Indies as the understudy to McGill it was surprising to see the selectors lose faith in him. FWIW, I would have given him the spot vacated by McGain on the tour of India rather than White.
There is a perception that he is too slow through the air for fleeted footed batsman and that might be right but he is a better spinner than White and I'm sure he could add a bit more to his pace if required.

We have a few spinners flirting around the scene and I don't mind Hauritz, Casson and young Smith (all from NSW) plus Cullen from SA. We also have some decent part time spinners as well.

What we need is someone who can get a couple of wickets but keep things tight. We can work with that at the moment and that is why they are playing Hauritz. We also need to develop the young spinners like Smith, Cullen, Bailey and even White. If McGain can come back we will buy these youngsters another year to develop.

[Mantis]

Re: Ricky Ponting

GVGjr even those 2 spinners are in the 30s, I would have thought the series against NZ would have been perfect to bring in a younger spinner, thus giving him some sort of experience so they werent pulling one out of the blue for the ashes tour.
Actually they should have taken a young one to India, great place to learn.
Problem is we arent bringing in younger players as the older ones get close to retirement, its like we are filling in gaps with old players just to get through the year, and after that whats the plan?

Give us some names.

There just aren't any good young spinners performing well at shield level.

[Topdog]

Re: Ricky Ponting

There are no young spinners but Ponting and the selectors just showed everyone how stupid and incredibly optimistic their selection policy has been. How they could take an unfit to bowl Symonds into this match on rely on Michael ****ing Hussey to be one of their bowlers was a disgrace.

And then just to make things even more perplexing after 8521 overs Symonds comes in and throws down 11 overs.

[ledge]

Re: Ricky Ponting

2 major problems with Australia, selectors have no idea and Ponting cant captain.
But I really do think Australia still has the talent to be the best, they just arent playing the right players, preferring to stick with older players.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Ricky Ponting

Australia has talent to burn in Shield Cricket, especially in the batting stocks. No need to play past-it players and too-big-for-their-shoes media whores who are seen more in ad breaks than on the park.

It's ridiculous that players like Hodge, D.Huss, Noffke et al can't get a game while Symonds and Hayden can't get dislodged from the team (unless you go fishing) despite not having contributed in over a year.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Ricky Ponting

Well I'm of the belief that if Australia wants to rebuild then players over 30 are a no no at the moment.
It was ok when the side was at its peak, topping up with experience would work.
David Hussey deserved a go but his timing is wrong. Same thing happened to Jamie Siddons.
Whats the point debuting a 30+yo, then having the same problems(age, injury, form leaving him) a few years later.
Lack of foresite put the team in this position now. Possible 10 year players only.
Better off wearing the hardship now and for a chance for greater returns, than delaying it longer.

[Mantis]

Re: Ricky Ponting

ES,

Which 'young' players should be introduced to the team?

Hughes is an obvious one, but there too many others putting their names forward.

[GVGjr]

Re: Ricky Ponting

ES,

Which 'young' players should be introduced to the team?

Hughes is an obvious one, but there too many others putting their names forward.

The NSW side is full of young cricketers that probably haven't quite put it together just yet to warrant a game (aside from Hughes) but are showing a lot of promise.
To me Watson even at 27 should be regarded as a young cricketer because he has missed so much on the field and could have been a bonus for this side this season.

Casson was poorly managed by the selectors and at 26 (just turned) could be a handy player.

If we are looking just at form then there are few young candidates but if we are looking at potential test or international cricketers that we might have to take a punt on then we have a few guys that should be considered.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Ricky Ponting

But how can we justify not picking the best players in the country to punt on kids?

It's the Test side, not an Academy team. You pick your best 11 blokes and put them on the park. There will always be good cricketers coming up behind them being groomed at Shield level, once the bloke drops off replace him with a ready-made.

M. Hussey has performed brilliantly coming in off Shield cricket. Katich, Stuart Clark, Hayden, even Ponting had good years back in Shield cricket before forcing themselves into (back into in some cases) the national team.

The problem ES is not that we haven't been picking enough young guys, the problem is that we've let old guys stay on too long. Of course there is the case of grooming certain bolters who show a lot of promise (M. Clarke for example), but even then the lack of maturity by too much 'entitlement' too early without really earning it has been shown up.

There's no need for pain -- national teams in plenty of sports stay near the top year after year because they have a glut of incredible players at domestic level and they pick the best, not just have a misguided 'youth' policy. There is no salary cap or draft system in Test cricket, there is no need for 'rebuilding' phases if you have a world-class domestic league. Just pick the best damn 11 guys you have, pack the next best 20 into Australia A and send them round the world to learn different conditions so they are ready at moment's notice.

And NO protected players. Surely the current problem is caused by the same 6-7 guys in the team for 10 years blocking everyone else regardless of form, so that the succession plan is kaput and kids play other sports because there is no real upward mobility? If you just skip over an entire generation (a brilliant generation, by the way) just to play kids who will get carted around the park by Pakistan people will just quit the sport. ES, your solution is to put another 6/7 guys who will gum up the works for the next 10 years? That's not foresight, that's just ideological mumbo-jumbo -- 'play the kids! play the kids!'

ps. It's an Australian test cap. It used to be you had to earn it, not just be 19 and throwing down off-spinners for your state. If you're good enough, you're good enough, if you're not, you're not. (and don't use Bradman and Warne as examples of kids thrown in as teenagers -- those were once in a lifetime players and can't be used as a basis for a selection policy).

[GVGjr]

Re: Ricky Ponting

ps. It's an Australian test cap. It used to be you had to earn it, not just be 19 and throwing down off-spinners for your state. If you're good enough, you're good enough, if you're not, you're not. (and don't use Bradman and Warne as examples of kids thrown in as teenagers -- those were once in a lifetime players and can't be used as a basis for a selection policy).

I pretty much agree with everything that you have written and it's the section above that I most agree with. An Australia test cap in all honesty should be earned but I'm sure on occasions the selectors have punted on an exciting player to compliment a squad.
Healy is just one example where without really having the runs on the board nor with much shield experience either they promoted him into the test side and let him develop.
Keepers might be the exception but Steve Waugh seemed to be promoted to the side before he had really done enough and whilst the early days were a bumpy ride, he eventually flourished.
McDermott and McGrath didn't have a lot of shield experience or success either before getting the call up.

These are the exceptions though and for many years players have had to work very hard and over an decent qualifying period before getting the call up into the side.

Sometimes getting out of the side has been a little harder though....and probably another story.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Ricky Ponting

ES,

Which 'young' players should be introduced to the team?

Hughes is an obvious one, but there too many others putting their names forward.

I have no idea who is good or bad, surely the selectors know who is young and talented then they can give them a go(a few tests).
From memory Warne hardily played a game of shield cricket prior his first test. How do you know how good someone is til they are tested. Its time to rebuild.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Ricky Ponting

But how can we justify not picking the best players in the country to punt on kids?

It all depends if you want a good team for just 2 years or 10 years.

[azabob]

Re: Ricky Ponting

I have no idea who is good or bad, surely the selectors know who is young and talented then they can give them a go(a few tests).
From memory Warne hardily played a game of shield cricket prior his first test. How do you know how good someone is til they are tested. Its time to rebuild.

Maybe rebuild is the wrong word. But give Hughes a game and either Hilfy or Bolinger, bring in watson and drops symonds. Ponting and Clarke pretty much go games right away and developed in the national side and then went back to shield level to work on skills that they needed to work on then came back better players for it. So did Hayden, Langer and Martyn.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Ricky Ponting

The problem ES is not that we haven't been picking enough young guys, the problem is that we've let old guys stay on too long. Of course there is the case of grooming certain bolters who show a lot of promise (M. Clarke for example), but even then the lack of maturity by too much 'entitlement' too early without really earning it has been shown up.

Which guys? Hayden. The rest didn't outstay? Most were still at their peak.

There's no need for pain -- national teams in plenty of sports stay near the top year after year because they have a glut of incredible players at domestic level and they pick the best, not just have a misguided 'youth' policy. There is no salary cap or draft system in Test cricket, there is no need for 'rebuilding' phases if you have a world-class domestic league. Just pick the best damn 11 guys you have, pack the next best 20 into Australia A and send them round the world to learn different conditions so they are ready at moment's notice.

Well there is plenty of pain there recently and more to come. Short term pain for long term gain.

ps. It's an Australian test cap. It used to be you had to earn it, not just be 19 and throwing down off-spinners for your state.

Wheteher you like it or not there have been plenty of dud test players selected that haven't deserved a go and there will be more.

If you're good enough, you're good enough, if you're not, you're not. (and don't use Bradman and Warne as examples of kids thrown in as teenagers -- those were once in a lifetime players and can't be used as a basis for a selection policy).

Why not? There were queries on the selection too at the time. Steve Waugh is another.

[Topdog]

Re: Ricky Ponting

The whole point of Australia A is to blood the youngsters. Test cricket is about winning matches and as fun as it is to say "play the youngsters" in this case it really is pointless.

Australia are still regularly scoring 350-400 runs which is enough to win Test matches. It's just that our bowling stocks are pretty poor at the moment.

I'm all for bringing in Hughes for Hayden but he deserves a chance, even if it is a bit early for him.