2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

[Bornadog]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

Does anyone think there should be a rule that the top 4 teams should not be eligible to take on a player like Lynch? It just makes the stronger teams stronger.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

Does anyone think there should be a rule that the top 4 teams should not be eligible to take on a player like Lynch? It just makes the stronger teams stronger.

It'd make sense. But strong clubs would oppose it and probably the AFLPA too. So would we back back the AFEL to make a decision like this? I wouldn't. But it doesn't mean they shouldn't.

[GVGjr]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

Does anyone think there should be a rule that the top 4 teams should not be eligible to take on a player like Lynch? It just makes the stronger teams stronger.

I don't like rules like that, you're basically saying teams should be handicapped for getting a lot of things right.
We already have a draft helps the teams that finish lower on the ladder and a salary cap that stops the bigger clubs to buy their way to a flag. Do we really need another way of leveling things?

[Bornadog]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

I don't like rules like that, you're basically saying teams should be handicapped for getting a lot of things right.
We already have a draft helps the teams that finish lower on the ladder and a salary cap that stops the bigger clubs to buy their way to a flag. Do we really need another way of leveling things?

It is something similar that happens in the US, just another way to even up the comp.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

Does anyone think there should be a rule that the top 4 teams should not be eligible to take on a player like Lynch? It just makes the stronger teams stronger.

Paul Roos has been making comments that touch on this point and, on the back of this, claims that the draft is not the equalisation method it once was/is supposed to be and needs to overhauled.

‘The definition of stupidity’: Paul Roos calls for an overhaul of AFL draft

PREMIERSHIP coach Paul Roos has demanded an overhaul of the draft, saying the so-called equalisation tool is no longer performing its role in the era of free agency.

To support his case, Roos looked at three powerhouse clubs from the past decade and compared them to three cellar dwellers, who have been gifted with the No. 1 pick.

Hawthorn, Sydney and Geelong have all remained relevant in the modern era without bottoming out, with the clubs able to attract mega trades and free agents.

Lance Franklin, Patrick Dangerfield and Jaeger O’Meara are all testaments to this.

Roos said the heightened interest around the No. 1 draft pick was folly given it had hardly provided last-placed teams with a mechanism to climb up the ladder — and as such, the draft wasn’t fulfilling its purpose.

“People out there, mainly recruiters, are going to go, ‘That’s ridiculous’,” Roos said on Fox Footy’s On The Couch.
“But this is why it’s not: From 2007-2017, Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney — for 33 seasons combined — have missed the finals only four of those seasons.

“The other ledger: Carlton, Brisbane and Melbourne — in the same period — have made the finals four out of 33 seasons.

“You want to talk about draft picks? The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.”

Full article:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/the-definition-of-stupidity-paul-roos-calls-for-an-overhaul-of-afl-draft/news-story/39c41c76e9e8581786ac39ed19b74d1a

[The Adelaide Connection]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

The thing that always scared me about free agency was the Judd style pay loopholes that some clubs have been able to utilise in the past and the more lucrative commercial opportunities the bigger clubs can flaunt. Even just having the blockbuster marquee games has got to be a selling point.

If I was a Collingwood recruiter I would almost open with:
"You get to play Anzac day"
"You get to play weekly at the G"
"We have more sponsors with more money to share round"
"Ed will get you media opportunities that other clubs cant"

The talk that Richmond will get Lynch (whilst North Melbourne can't get anybody) is concerning. It also means that clubs like North Melbourne (and us) will likely have to pay a premium in any contract offer.

Maybe clubs having to pay a "transfer fee" that is a sliding scale depending on ladder position (with marquee game holders also up for a premium) could be one way to level the playing field a little. This one off fee would have to be incorporated into the next years salary cap (which would certainly hobble the clubs with the best lists in most cases).

[GVGjr]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

It is something similar that happens in the US, just another way to even up the comp.

But does the competition need it? I'd say no.
There is a fair chance that all you will do is drag the overall standard down not lift it up.
The salary cap does a great job at leveling out the competition and if you make the right decisions you will get your chances of success.
The draft also plays it's part as well so I'm not sure why you think we need to drag successful teams down or make it harder for them to succeed?
Dangerfield and Ablett to Geelong and Franklin to Sydney hasn't necessarily made them unbeatable. GWS manipulated the draft for years and it hasn't quite delivered them a flag either because they also had to let players go due to the salary cap.

I don't think what you are proposing will fix the competition.

[Mofra]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

Does anyone think there should be a rule that the top 4 teams should not be eligible to take on a player like Lynch? It just makes the stronger teams stronger.

The question is - who was the large marquee signing to play in a premiership side?

The biggest player movements in recent times seems to be Ablett, Buddy, Dangerfield... none of them end up with a flag. You'd probably have to go back to Ottens as a mega trade that bore fruit.
Judd is considered a success and he didn't even play that many finals for Carlton.

Tom Boyd is a special case considering he was a 9-game kid when we offered a massive deal, his 5 goals in a quarter on two opponents in the TAC Cup still a fresh memory.

Hawks did get O'Meara - but after they sold the farm for him, he wasn't a FA
Sydney getting Lance (and Tippett) lost them the very players that might have snagged them a flag - especially Mumford.
Geelong had to trade for Danger after he said he wanted Adelaide to get some form of compensation. Adelaide at least made a GF after he left, Geelong look like they're heading for a cliff.

TBH I think teams that take a chance on cheap marginal types who come good do much better than those who target superstars.

Of our 7 premiership defenders we had 5 former rookies (including Biggs who was also a virtual freebie trade from Sydney), a DFA, a PSD pick and Wood at pick 43. Development > FA.

[The Underdog]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

It is something similar that happens in the US, just another way to even up the comp.

I don’t know of any rules in any US sports that have a rule that precludes top teams from signing top free agents outside of standard salary cap or luxury tax penalties. I may be wrong but nothing comes to mind.
I also think it’s a bad idea and agree with GVG that salary cap and draft are big enough equalisation measures.

[jeemak]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

‘The definition of stupidity’: Paul Roos calls for an overhaul of AFL draft

PREMIERSHIP coach Paul Roos has demanded an overhaul of the draft, saying Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos Paul Roos

[jeemak]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

I think Paul will find that all of Melbourne, Brisbane and Carlton have been managed horrendously from top to tail, and that the likes of Hawthorn and Geelong have been managed exceptionally well.

Sure, they both get a bit of a leg up from headquarters, and have home ground advantages, but to blame their prominence on the draft not working is off the mark.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

I think Paul will find that all of Melbourne, Brisbane and Carlton have been managed horrendously from top to tail, and that the likes of Hawthorn and Geelong have been managed exceptionally well.

Sure, they both get a bit of a leg up from headquarters, and have home ground advantages, but to blame their prominence on the draft not working is off the mark.

Is this the same Paul Roos who (among other things) traded away pick two at Melbourne, who was always tipped to be Josh Kelly?

[Bulldog4life]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

Is this the same Paul Roos who (among other things) traded away pick two at Melbourne, who was always tipped to be Josh Kelly?

Yes. He should always be known Paul Kelly Roos from now on.

[Greystache]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

But does the competition need it? I'd say no.
There is a fair chance that all you will do is drag the overall standard down not lift it up.
The salary cap does a great job at leveling out the competition and if you make the right decisions you will get your chances of success.
The draft also plays it's part as well so I'm not sure why you think we need to drag successful teams down or make it harder for them to succeed?
Dangerfield and Ablett to Geelong and Franklin to Sydney hasn't necessarily made them unbeatable. GWS manipulated the draft for years and it hasn't quite delivered them a flag either because they also had to let players go due to the salary cap.

I don't think what you are proposing will fix the competition.

I hear what you're saying but I'm not sure I agree. Free agents generally go to teams that are at the top at that time. They don't have to be especially well run clubs, particularly currently, they just have to have a team in place to be challenging. Clubs down the bottom could be brilliantly run and be drafting future stars 2 or 3 years in a row, but due to the cyclical nature of the AFL, be near the bottom of the ladder, and therefore be unappealing for free agents.

To me free agency does nothing more than lengthen the cycle. Teams at the top can top up to stay close to challenging (history shows not actually be premiers) for practically no cost, while teams down the bottom have to keep drafting youth or pay big for trades to push their way back up. No free agency means the players will still be in the system so the standard doesn't drop, it just means the bottom clubs can rebound faster and you potentially have less Carlton's who are barely VFL standard.

[Mofra]

Re: 2018 AFL -Trade Rumours and Discussion

I hear what you're saying but I'm not sure I agree. Free agents generally go to teams that are at the top at that time.

Just for shits and giggles I thought I'd have a look at this. Turns out the opposite is true.

2017: Trengove to WB (10th)
Rockliff & Motlop to Port (5th)

2016: Vickery to Hawthorn (5th after finals)
Wells & Mayne to Collingwood (12th)
Brown to St Kilda (9th)

2015: Suckling to WB (6th)
Selwood to Geelong (10th)
Luenberger to Essendon (15th)
Simpson to GWS (11th)

So in the last 3 years we've had 11 free agents with only one player in that time moving to a top 4 club at the end of the H&A (Vickery in 2016) and the Hawks slipped out of the top 4 after the finals anyway.