Hawthorn racism review

[hujsh]

Re: Hawthorn racism review

I suspect you are 100% right but it just cannot be an outcome of convenience - the allegations are so horrific and they need to be properly and clinically examined in the appropriate forum for the good of the game and everybody involved. And there has to be strong ramifications for everyone accused if the allegation are proven (and likewise for those who brought the allegations to light if they are proven not to have materialised).

My fanfic is they balls the whole thing up so badly the federal government get involved and launch a Royal Commission into the AFL Headquarters and it all ends with the AFL being competently managed for the good of the fans...

I don't think it is baseless - I have no opinion one way or the other on veracity or otherwise of the story, and am waiting for the allegations to be proven or otherwise through the appropriate forum. I am simply judging the ABC on their deafening silence, when they went chest puffed out and all guns blazing early in the life-cycle of the story. If you recall a few weeks in they were still going hard and publicly attacked Sonja Hood with strong allegations, and then very swiftly issued a full public retraction of those allegations at the threat of legal action - since then they have completely gone AWOL. It says to me they now have no faith at all in their own story, a repeated pattern of behaviour they have much previous form in unfortunately.

Meh, it could be the ABC doesn't have faith in the story or it could be the ABC management are conservative and/or cowards. (not conservative in the political sense in case that causes confusion)

I can't wait to see if this AFL investigation is half as good as their search for a new CEO

[Sedat]

Re: Hawthorn racism review

Meh, it could be the ABC doesn't have faith in the story or it could be the ABC management are conservative and/or cowards. (not conservative in the political sense in case that causes confusion)

The apparent lack of faith in the story/allegations is not limited to the ABC it would seem. I missed the episode this week but apparently Caroline Wilson (of all people, but not the slightest bit surprising) has lambasted the ABC on Footy Classified saying she was amazed they decided to print the article due to the dubious nature of the allegations (or something similar along those lines). In case you're wondering, this is the same Caroline Wilson who virtually demanded Clarkson and Fagan's head on a platter when the story first broke and said they had no right to defend themselves from the allegations. My goodness, she is utterly shameless. I bet the partners of Tim Membrey and Seb Ross are still waiting for her apology for the unnecessary distress and harm she directly caused them for having the gall to give birth during the COVID hub.

The Age article today is also shedding some murky water on the entire process and the possible withholding of information/records that might have the potential to disprove the allegations - there seems to be a full media retreat on this story. It is just a horrible situation all round (made infinitely worse by the utter grubs in the media) and it is only going to get messier.

[D Mitchell]

Re: Hawthorn racism review

The apparent lack of faith in the story/allegations is not limited to the ABC it would seem. I missed the episode this week but apparently Caroline Wilson (of all people, but not the slightest bit surprising) has lambasted the ABC on Footy Classified saying she was amazed they decided to print the article due to the dubious nature of the allegations (or something similar along those lines). In case you're wondering, this is the same Caroline Wilson who virtually demanded Clarkson and Fagan's head on a platter when the story first broke and said they had no right to defend themselves from the allegations. My goodness, she is utterly shameless. I bet the partners of Tim Membrey and Seb Ross are still waiting for her apology for the unnecessary distress and harm she directly caused them for having the gall to give birth during the COVID hub.

The Age article today is also shedding some murky water on the entire process and the possible withholding of information/records that might have the potential to disprove the allegations - there seems to be a full media retreat on this story. It is just a horrible situation all round (made infinitely worse by the utter grubs in the media) and it is only going to get messier.

What little I've read/seen from the media tends to be supportive of the players and their families. Would you rank the person(s) who leaked the story to the media even lower ?

[Sedat]

Re: Hawthorn racism review

What little I've read/seen from the media tends to be supportive of the players and their families. Would you rank the person(s) who leaked the story to the media even lower ?

If the allegations are proven to be false, absolutely. Having said that, the media has a moral (possibly also legal) obligation to thoroughly stress-test stories and allegations before going to print with them, knowing the powder-keg atmosphere they will ignite. This used to be the default setting in the media landscape not so long ago, but now the obsession with peddling a specific narrative (as well as speed to market at all costs) overrides all other more prudent considerations, and the collateral damage caused by this brazen and utterly reckless behaviour lasts many years after the media caravan tire of current story and move on.

[The bulldog tragician]

Re: Hawthorn racism review

The ABC have been retreating from this story quicker than the Italians halfway through WW2. Their attitude to this is the most instructive - it is obvious that they now have grave doubts about the veracity of their own story and the allegations, as they have been bitten several times in recent history with other explosive stories that ended up being proven by the courts to be 100% baseless, resulting in hefty legal proceedings against them (of which the taxpayer footed the bill naturally, and of course nobody involved were held directly accountable in any way, and remarkably these taxpayer funded employees are still in generous and gainful employment today).

IF the allegations are proven to be false, the ABC should honestly be wound up and shut down - the reporter should be sacked on the spot and held directly accountable, and so should the editors and legal team who green-lit the story. Getting something so spectacularly wrong that has caused total carnage for all involved is utterly reprehensible conduct, particularly from our public broadcaster and the supposed beacon of truth and honesty. Of course this will never happen but it absolutely should.

There is no halfway here - either the accused are 100% cleared and exonerated, or (if the allegations are proven) they are kicked out of the game for good and the victims duly compensated. There should be no grubby weasel outcomes of convenience that give both sides something to hang their hat on - not for the AFEL, not for the club, not for the accused/accusers, and certainly not for the public broadcaster and the reporter in question.

This is where I respectfully disagree. I don?t know what exonerates means in this context. If there is no smoking gun email where Clarkson says: ?about that visit last night where we discussed you breaking up with your girlfriend and terminating a pregnancy? do we all breathe a sigh of relief that nothing happened.

This is why I believe the current process is doomed to fail. I am not reflexively believing either ?side.? Though I guess I?m coming from a starting point that yes, conversations were had around these family issues rather than this being a complete invention (I find it hard to understand why this would be so).

In fact it becoming ?sides? is the problem which is why I advocated in my post above for something much less adversarial. Something where there could be recognition that the way an indigenous kid hears what could have been intended by the coaches as a well meaning discussion on personal matters ? Hey that girlfriend doesn?t seem to be that good for you and are you really ready to have a baby? would be vastly different to that conversation being held with a very confident Bailey Smith and his private school background. These are likely to have been very emotional conversations and what everyone thought was said is unlikely to be very contested, wouldn?t it be so much better for this to be allowed for rather than attempts to disprove they ever happened.

[The bulldog tragician]

Re: Hawthorn racism review

As for credibility I could not care less what any of the footy commentators think one way or another. They know as little as you and I what actually happened but maybe it’s worth remembering that at the time of the allegations which is a few years ago one of the women wrote an extremely detailed account (7 pages I think) and sent it to Andrew Newbold hoping for action then.

[Sedat]

Re: Hawthorn racism review

This is where I respectfully disagree. I don?t know what exonerates means in this context. If there is no smoking gun email where Clarkson says: ?about that visit last night where we discussed you breaking up with your girlfriend and terminating a pregnancy? do we all breathe a sigh of relief that nothing happened.

This is why I believe the current process is doomed to fail. I am not reflexively believing either ?side.? Though I guess I?m coming from a starting point that yes, conversations were had around these family issues rather than this being a complete invention (I find it hard to understand why this would be so).

In fact it becoming ?sides? is the problem which is why I advocated in my post above for something much less adversarial. Something where there could be recognition that the way an indigenous kid hears what could have been intended by the coaches as a well meaning discussion on personal matters ? Hey that girlfriend doesn?t seem to be that good for you and are you really ready to have a baby? would be vastly different to that conversation being held with a very confident Bailey Smith and his private school background. These are likely to have been very emotional conversations and what everyone thought was said is unlikely to be very contested, wouldn?t it be so much better for this to be allowed for rather than attempts to disprove they ever happened.

I appreciate your reasoned reply. All I will say is that you are hypothesising on what might or might not have happened, whereas I prefer not to do so and wait for all the evidence be soberly assessed in the proper forum so that all parties have their say.

It is concerning that the media (including the original authors) are now almost all in lock-step seemingly walking away from the story at speed.

[Bornadog]

Re: Hawthorn racism review

I appreciate your reasoned reply. All I will say is that you are hypothesising on what might or might not have happened, whereas I prefer not to do so and wait for all the evidence be soberly assessed in the proper forum so that all parties have their say.

It is concerning that the media (including the original authors) are now almost all in lock-step seemingly walking away from the story at speed.

I don't think there has been much to report until this week.

Have you read Jake Niall's piece in The Age:

Revealed: How Hawks investigation stalled over key documents - let me know if it is paywalled and I can print here.

[The bulldog tragician]

Re: Hawthorn racism review

I appreciate your reasoned reply. All I will say is that you are hypothesising on what might or might not have happened, whereas I prefer not to do so and wait for all the evidence be soberly assessed in the proper forum so that all parties have their say.

It is concerning that the media (including the original authors) are now almost all in lock-step seemingly walking away from the story at speed.

As I said, I do have a starting point that SOMETHING happened given what I mentioned above of the contemporary complaint made by one of the women who was not seeking anything more than for it to be addressed. My hypothesisising is trying to see how those conversations may have unfolded, they actually are coming from a hopeful position that the coaching guys had good intentions but failed to understand how those conversations would be perceived and/or applied some different standard in thinking these matters were any of their business. There are potentially worse scenarios that I haven’t mentioned.

We won’t ever know because it being aired publicly and a legal process being commenced. As for the media walking away I’m not sure this is 100% the case but I also don’t underestimate the power of the AFL in shaping these things.

[jeemak]

Re: Hawthorn racism review

Here's a report from the ABC (14 hours online, apparently):

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-11/hawthorn-racism-review-stalls/102330628

[jeemak]

Re: Hawthorn racism review

It's pretty crook that Clarkson and the others are refusing to interview without having private documents released to them.

They can set the terms of reference/ conditions for their cooperation at any time, they hold the whip hand here. Hiding behind redactions/ limitations just makes them look as if they are delaying. If they were truly comfortable with what they've done in the past then they can simply make statements on their own terms.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: Hawthorn racism review

Reports Clarkson is stepping away from the game indefinitely.

[hujsh]

Re: Hawthorn racism review

Reports Clarkson is stepping away from the game indefinitely.

Whoa

Ah, the reason given is for mental health

https://www.afl.com.au/news/927831/clarkson-to-take-leave-to-focus-on-his-wellbeing-

[GVGjr]

Re: Hawthorn racism review

Whoa

Ah, the reason given is for mental health
https://www.afl.com.au/news/927831/c...his-wellbeing-

Huge news. Lets hope he gets a lot of support.

North can't take a trick.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Hawthorn racism review

Ratten acting coach at North.