Well Ruck Me.

[JanLorMill]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

Team first. Play them where they are required. We are very thin in the backline too. Where we hiding English?

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

Team first. Play them where they are required. We are very thin in the backline too. Where we hiding English?

VFL maybe. Early this before Lobb I wanted to see if Timid could play in the backline. But Lobb has that spot and there’s no spot forward. Maybe he could go to a wing, like Blicavs. I don’t know is the answer. But we need a ruck with some aggression and Milesi has said Croft has it in spades, hence the question do we move him there this preseason.

[GVGjr]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

So…

Croft started as a junior in defence. Then went forward. He clearly is very athletically talented and skilled at either end. Milesi in the club video after drafting him talked about how he liked playing with aggression and plays with ‘the red mist’. At 201cm do we look at him as a ruckman?

If we need a big agro guy in the ruck I’d prefer it not to be Naughton. I’d prefer to keep Darcy forward as he could be generational up forward. The conversation with Croft has been is he a defender or forward. Owing to not having a ruckman with presence or aggression, do we look at Croft next year (with a preseason) as a ruckman who understands the roles of floating into defence or getting into dangerous positions forward?

The problem is that he just doesn't have the build yet to be thrown into ruck contests in any real capacity and to be honest I don't see that as a likely scenario for at least another 2 years.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

The problem is that he just doesn't have the build yet to be thrown into ruck contests in any real capacity and to be honest I don't see that as a likely scenario for at least another 2 years.

Agreed. Moreso, around do we spend his preseason as a defender or forward. Or do we see the ruck as an issue and call him a ruck now and start his journey to first ruck now and he plays when he plays. Or do we pick say defence and train him there as the 5th KPD on the list or 4th KPF on the list. I think we need to recruit a first ruck, failing that (I really don’t want to waste Darcy as a ruck) with Lobb as a KPD we need to do something to give us options even if it’s not immediate.

[SquirrelGrip]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

Owing to not having a ruckman with presence or aggression, do we look at Croft next year (with a preseason) as a ruckman who understands the roles of floating into defence or getting into dangerous positions forward?

By the time Croft's body would be ready to play ruck, Fossil Smith would already be multiple years ahead of him and be a much better choice.

It's very difficult to develop a ruckman on the list unless he plays multiple positions. Ideally you have an experienced hard body (e.g. Tom Campbell) to come in if your number 1 goes down for whatever reason, but then in the VFL that same person would play ruck ahead of the your development one. I've been happy this year seeing Smith play as our number 1 VFL ruck, but nervous at the same time if English was out for an extended period.

[Danjul]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

By the time Croft's body would be ready to play ruck, Fossil Smith would already be multiple years ahead of him and be a much better choice.

It's very difficult to develop a ruckman on the list unless he plays multiple positions. Ideally you have an experienced hard body (e.g. Tom Campbell) to come in if your number 1 goes down for whatever reason, but then in the VFL that same person would play ruck ahead of the your development one. I've been happy this year seeing Smith play as our number 1 VFL ruck, but nervous at the same time if English was out for an extended period.

Is Smith actually tall enough to be a first ruck these days?

[Bornadog]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

Is Smith actually tall enough to be a first ruck these days?

At 203cm it seems not, however, if he can use his leap and ruck nous then he can be successful.

Croft, LSmith and Darcy don't have the body yet to be an effective ruck. I mean Smith and Croft are barely 19 at this stage

[Danjul]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

At 203cm it seems not, however, if he can use his leap and ruck nous then he can be successful.

Croft, LSmith and Darcy don't have the body yet to be an effective ruck. I mean Smith and Croft are barely 19 at this stage

Do 19 yo footballers get taller?

[lemmon]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

Do 19 yo footballers get taller?

Or learn to jump? I think Smith is promising, but the lad doesn't look to be a great athlete. I think there's a place for him - Lloyd Meek is about 203cm, but he's a fairly slow burn.

[Sedat]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

So?

Croft started as a junior in defence. Then went forward. He clearly is very athletically talented and skilled at either end. Milesi in the club video after drafting him talked about how he liked playing with aggression and plays with ?the red mist?. At 201cm do we look at him as a ruckman?

If we need a big agro guy in the ruck I?d prefer it not to be Naughton. I?d prefer to keep Darcy forward as he could be generational up forward. The conversation with Croft has been is he a defender or forward. Owing to not having a ruckman with presence or aggression, do we look at Croft next year (with a preseason) as a ruckman who understands the roles of floating into defence or getting into dangerous positions forward?

Interesting idea and worthy of investment, even if there won't be a payoff for 2+ years. If he is as competitive as articulated, it could eventually reap rewards.

The results are in and our ruck/stoppage strategy at the pointy just has to change - we have not won a final since 2019, outside of one year where we did change strategy and had a senior established no 1 ruck on his last legs (Stef Martin). The English as no 1 ruck strategy has unequivocally been a failure when it matters for 6 years now, and in all likelihood will continue to fail in the future. It will ultimately be beneficial to both English and the club to acknowledge what he is (and more importantly what he isn't and likely never will be) and change course in 2025.

[Bornadog]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

Do 19 yo footballers get taller?

yes they do

[G-Mo77]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

Interesting idea and worthy of investment, even if there won't be a payoff for 2+ years. If he is as competitive as articulated, it could eventually reap rewards.

The results are in and our ruck/stoppage strategy at the pointy just has to change - we have not won a final since 2019, outside of one year where we did change strategy and had a senior established no 1 ruck on his last legs (Stef Martin). The English as no 1 ruck strategy has unequivocally been a failure when it matters for 6 years now, and in all likelihood will continue to fail in the future. It will ultimately be beneficial to both English and the club to acknowledge what he is (and more importantly what he isn't and likely never will be) and change course in 2025.

And we just signed him for 5.

I don't care what anyone says, if you are hitting the ball out double the amount of times your opponent is you are giving your midfield first look, you're putting your opponents midfield on their back foot and making them less attacking. We need a ruck who can at least draw even, they are not needed to win the ball X amount of times just give our mids first look at the contest. We don't need the extra midfielder, if we did we may as well put Bont in the ruck.

[Sedat]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

And we just signed him for 5.

I don't care what anyone says, if you are hitting the ball out double the amount of times your opponent is you are giving your midfield first look, you're putting your opponents midfield on their back foot and making them less attacking. We need a ruck who can at least draw even, they are not needed to win the ball X amount of times just give our mids first look at the contest. We don't need the extra midfielder, if we did we may as well put Bont in the ruck.

English has absolutely elite AFL traits that we and 17 other clubs need. He is a high quality footballer - he just isn't a bankable finals/big game no 1 ruckman, and after 6 years of consistent failure on the big stage in this role, I don't think he ever will be. It looked an awful lot like Bevo came to the same realisation at half time on Friday night as well.

[macca]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

English has absolutely elite AFL traits that we and 17 other clubs need. He is a high quality footballer - he just isn't a bankable finals/big game no 1 ruckman, and after 6 years of consistent failure on the big stage in this role, I don't think he ever will be. It looked an awful lot like Bevo came to the same realisation at half time on Friday night as well.

Sadly that was my assessment, when Naughton went into the ruck.

Meek, the journeyman who could not get a game at Freo, had beaten English. Snippet from the article : "He played nine games in 2021 for a total of 15 across five seasons at Fremantle, developing from a skinny teenager who played WAFL reserves football in his first two seasons into a player many believe is capable of becoming a regular senior fixture at Hawthorn in 2023." Freo invested 5 seasons into him. We invested 4 years into Sweet before he was traded and we bought in Lobb .

Easy to talk in hindsight. But Meek, has competitive traits and wanted to be Number 1 ruckman vs others in his team. With English, there is no competition internally.

I just hate how good Hawthorn are get these players who are 4-5+ years in the system and they getting better.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/871989/why-in-demand-ruckman-lloyd-meek-chose-hawthorn-hawks-as-opportunity-beckons

[comrade]

Re: Well Ruck Me.

Can we change the title of this thread to:

We?re Completely Rucked