List Management 2015

[S Coast Simon]

Re: List Management 2015

Happy to rookie him for backup. I don't think we need to have to many speculative selections on the rookie list. The young boys will need a rest at some stages and he could come in tough and ready to muscle in

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: List Management 2015

Surely the only option for Adcock is the rookie list and I mean with any club.

If anyone was seriously interested in him for their main list they would be just adding him as a delisted free agent now.

[LostDoggy]

Re: List Management 2015

On another forum they are currently constructing a consensus best 22 for next year.

They have our back pockets/flanks as Morris, Wood, MBoyd & Murphy.
Wings are Macrae and Hunter.
Centre Square Mids are Bont, Wallis and Libba.
Small forwards are Dahlhaus and Maclean.

All fairly reasonable.

They haven't done the interchange yet. Given a tall utility is a distinct option this year, that leaves 3-4 interchange spots for Picken, JJ, Suckling, Stevens, Webb, Dale, Biggs, Jong, Honeychurch, Hrovat, Prudden and the others (before draftees).

This is why I just don't see the need for a 30 year old midsize utility like Adcock. We need to be getting games into players 5-12 on this list, any games they don't get is just slowed development.

[Happy Days]

Re: List Management 2015

I'm good with it. He showed what he can do in that round 23 exhibition game and is clearly AFL standard. When we needed to rest/replace HBF'ers at stages last year Sam Darley got a run; looking at it that way, why not?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: List Management 2015

On another forum they are currently constructing a consensus best 22 for next year.

They have our back pockets/flanks as Morris, Wood, MBoyd & Murphy.
Wings are Macrae and Hunter.
Centre Square Mids are Bont, Wallis and Libba.
Small forwards are Dahlhaus and Maclean.

All fairly reasonable.

They haven't done the interchange yet. Given a tall utility is a distinct option this year, that leaves 3-4 interchange spots for Picken, JJ, Suckling, Stevens, Webb, Dale, Biggs, Jong, Honeychurch, Hrovat, Prudden and the others (before draftees).

This is why I just don't see the need for a 30 year old midsize utility like Adcock. We need to be getting games into players 5-12 on this list, any games they don't get is just slowed development.

We'll never have our ideal best 22 on the park at the same time. Injuries and form fluctuations are simply a given.

It is a myth that players can't "develop" playing VFL/Foootscray. We can't gift games to players simply because they are young. They need to play the right way and earn their spot, particularly given the healthy state of our list, and there's nothing wrong with that and friendly competition to elevate one another's performance.

Adcock for a rookie list spot would be great cover. A hungry, quality, versatile and experienced player who can provide good leadership for our young players, challenge them, and also potentially contribute to making us a better side.

[Bornadog]

Re: List Management 2015

As a rookie, why not? He is clearly AFL quality and has only left Brisbane because they've gone on yet another youth splurge. I'm not confident Clay Smith will ever be the player we drafted him for, and Libba is coming off a serious knee. Stevens has also had his fair share of injuries throughout his AFL career to date.

No issues at all if we rookie him, and also not fussed at all if another club takes him instead.

The rookie list is not designed to take 29/30 year old players, but that theory is gone out the door.

Complete waste of a spot when we could be blooding another youngish player or early 20's ruckman and some KPP. We don't need another midfielder.

[Bulldog4life]

Re: List Management 2015

We'll never have our ideal best 22 on the park at the same time. Injuries and form fluctuations are simply a given.

It is a myth that players can't "develop" playing VFL/Foootscray. We can't gift games to players simply because they are young. They need to play the right way and earn their spot, particularly given the healthy state of our list, and there's nothing wrong with that and friendly competition to elevate one another's performance.

Adcock for a rookie list spot would be great cover. A hungry, quality, versatile and experienced player who can provide good leadership for our young players, challenge them, and also potentially contribute to making us a better side.

Agree. Adcock is a versatile player too. Kicked 4 goals against us in the last match this season and plays in the backline and mid field too. A very good rookie get.

[LostDoggy]

Re: List Management 2015

We'll never have our ideal best 22 on the park at the same time. Injuries and form fluctuations are simply a given.

It is a myth that players can't "develop" playing VFL/Foootscray. We can't gift games to players simply because they are young. They need to play the right way and earn their spot, particularly given the healthy state of our list, and there's nothing wrong with that and friendly competition to elevate one another's performance.

Adcock for a rookie list spot would be great cover. A hungry, quality, versatile and experienced player who can provide good leadership for our young players, challenge them, and also potentially contribute to making us a better side.

It's true that injuries and form will mean you need back up. In my opinion, 11 players (or more) is adequate cover for the spots Adcock can assist in. I also reckon a 27YO Suckling has already been recruited for that extra midsize defender/utility cover that Adcock can also cover.

I also can't really agree that AFL games will not develop players quicker than VFL, particularly the Webbs and Jongs who can kill it in the VFL but are yet to establish themselves consistently at AFL level.

I understand the counter arguments, which are reasonable. I just think our list is at a point where fringe mids/running defenders who are ready need maximum exposure and our rookie spots need to go to prospects in positions where our ranks are thinner.

[Twodogs]

Re: List Management 2015

It's true that injuries and form will mean you need back up. In my opinion, 11 players (or more) is adequate cover for the spots Adcock can assist in. I also reckon a 27YO Suckling has already been recruited for that extra midsize defender/utility cover that Adcock can also cover.

I also can't really agree that AFL games will not develop players quicker than VFL, particularly the Webbs and Jongs who can kill it in the VFL but are yet to establish themselves consistently at AFL level.

I understand the counter arguments, which are reasonable. I just think our list is at a point where fringe mids/running defenders who are ready need maximum exposure and our rookie spots need to go to prospects in positions where our ranks are thinner.

I agree that some players can only go so far at one level before they really need to go onto the next level before they improve again.i also agree with TBB that having the Footscrat VFL side is a terrific tool to have to improve players and a lot of the younger players on our list will play most of the year there. I don't think that Adcock is too much of an indulgence as a Rookie. Good cover for a few different positions and I see him as competing for a different position in the team than a 19 or a 20 year old. He brings lots of things in his kit bag that separates him and defines his team functions apart from the kids

[GVGjr]

Re: List Management 2015

We'll never have our ideal best 22 on the park at the same time. Injuries and form fluctuations are simply a given.

It is a myth that players can't "develop" playing VFL/Foootscray. We can't gift games to players simply because they are young. They need to play the right way and earn their spot, particularly given the healthy state of our list, and there's nothing wrong with that and friendly competition to elevate one another's performance.

Adcock for a rookie list spot would be great cover. A hungry, quality, versatile and experienced player who can provide good leadership for our young players, challenge them, and also potentially contribute to making us a better side.

Couldn't agree more, when we were aligned with Williamstown it was seen as the excuse to explain why some players weren't developing and after going to considerable expense to put a great Footscray team on the park, coached by our own coaches and playing in the same manner the seniors do so many people simply don't want the youngsters playing there regardless of the form displayed. Let them earn their promotions

[LostDoggy]

Re: List Management 2015

I agree that some players can only go so far at one level before they really need to go onto the next level before they improve again.i also agree with TBB that having the Footscrat VFL side is a terrific tool to have to improve players and a lot of the younger players on our list will play most of the year there. I don't think that Adcock is too much of an indulgence as a Rookie. Good cover for a few different positions and I see him as competing for a different position in the team than a 19 or a 20 year old. He brings lots of things in his kit bag that separates him and defines his team functions apart from the kids

Fair enough TD, guess I just see it differently in that we already have more than enough cover in the area Adcock plays in. To me, Suckling has already been obtained to provide a similar function.

Given that Murphy, Boyd and Morris are also there in similar roles, let alone utility mids like Stevens, Biggs and Jong who will be on the fringes of our best 22, Adcock seems to me 30YO surplus for us, when he could be a really valuable contributor to a lot of clubs.

If somebody had've asked in early October what do we need as experienced list supplements over the trade/draft, I don't think many of us would've gone for a 27YO backflanker/winger and a 30YO back flanker/utility.

I do get that he would only be a Rookie, so there is little to be lost.

[F'scary]

Re: List Management 2015

Re Adcock: I don't know, our list is now starting to build up some depth and experience, Libba is back in 2016, Suckling comes in for Grant (so no loss of experience there), might have Clay Smith available sometime in 2016. Bob, Matt and Dale are still going strong. Big Will is still there. I think we need to use the Rookie list to test out project players, not provide list coverage. We are past that.

[GVGjr]

Re: List Management 2015

Re Adcock: I don't know, our list is now starting to build up some depth and experience, Libba is back in 2016, Suckling comes in for Grant (so no loss of experience there), might have Clay Smith available sometime in 2016. Bob, Matt and Dale are still going strong. Big Will is still there. I think we need to use the Rookie list to test out project players, not provide list coverage. We are past that.

I'll challenge this to some extent. If we believe we can improve on last year why wouldn't we want to add depth?
I haven't formed an opinion on potentially selecting Adcock yet but if we can push for a top 4 to 6 position why shouldn't we look to strengthen the list with a proven performer and a good leader?
I get that his age works against him but if 2016 and 2017 are years where we can push for a top 4 spot I'm not sure how it hurts us.

[Rocco Jones]

Re: List Management 2015

As a rookie, why not? He is clearly AFL quality and has only left Brisbane because they've gone on yet another youth splurge. I'm not confident Clay Smith will ever be the player we drafted him for, and Libba is coming off a serious knee. Stevens has also had his fair share of injuries throughout his AFL career to date.

No issues at all if we rookie him, and also not fussed at all if another club takes him instead.

We'll never have our ideal best 22 on the park at the same time. Injuries and form fluctuations are simply a given.

It is a myth that players can't "develop" playing VFL/Foootscray. We can't gift games to players simply because they are young. They need to play the right way and earn their spot, particularly given the healthy state of our list, and there's nothing wrong with that and friendly competition to elevate one another's performance.

Adcock for a rookie list spot would be great cover. A hungry, quality, versatile and experienced player who can provide good leadership for our young players, challenge them, and also potentially contribute to making us a better side.

Why post when you can just quote others who say it perfectly?

To add to this, I think premiership player standard is a bit of a myth too. Great sides can also fill out their sides with moneyball type recruiters. Players who aren't world beaters but cheap and make the 22 / depth slightly better.

[Rocco Jones]

Re: List Management 2015

Also I will add that I don't think he will mainly play as a midfielder. He is the perfect depth player as he can play any non KPP/ruck role. I see him primarily as a forward now. He kicked his goal a game + tackles for a side who finished 17th. He can rotate through the midfield and has played the vast majority of his best footy down back.

He is a massive upgrade on Brett Goodes and beats Jarrad Grant for mine.