Scott Clayton - Recruiting guru or an inflated reputation?

[Sedat]

Re: Scott Clayton - Recruiting guru or an inflated reputation?

Interesting that we got Boumann with the pick 48 we received from North for Sam Power. Mulligan was supposedly the other player we had in mind with that pick, so it would have been a speculative tall with upside either way.

[soupman]

Re: Scott Clayton - Recruiting guru or an inflated reputation?

The problem with replacing him is that recruiing is so important that if he leaves we need to get a good recruiter otherwise we will be hurting for years. He's had a fairly good record with us, here are his draft picks and who he could have gotten after.

2000
10. Jordan McMahon

12. Shaun Burgoyne
16. Scott Thompson
18. Daniel Kerr
20. Kane Cornes
23. Drew Petrie
25. Mark Coughlan

26. Shane Birss

29. Jamie Charman
34. Ryan Lonie
39. Adam McPhee
43. Mark Williams
44. Josh Hunt

56. Daniel Cross

58. Nathan Lonie
60. Corey Jones
67. Graham Johncock

70. Wayde Skipper

Not a bad effort. All our picks are still playing AFL footy, two are established players, two fringe players. Barely any talls in this draft were missed (I'm discounting rookies as nobody drafted them), the only talls taken after our first pick being Petrie (nothing great) and Charman, with Skipper being the only other tall still on a list taken after pick 7.

2001

10. Sam Power

13. Nick Dal Santo
17. James Kelly
19. Jason Gram
21. Matt Maguire
22. Mark Seaby
24. Steve Johnson
29. Lewis Roberts-Thomson
36. Sam Mitchell
37. Leigh Montagna
38. Ashley Hansen

42. Kieran McGuiness

47. Andrew Welsh
55. Ben Miller
56. Paul Medhurst

57. Brent Colbert

58. Dane Swan
60. Adam Schneider
62. Damon White

71. Brian Lake (Harris)

Of that draft he made mistakes with the smaller players but only really missed 3 talls in Hansen, Maguire and Seaby (I think LRT was a speculative pick) with Brian Harris being the steal of the draft; the best tall taken after Hansen.

2002

4. Tim Walsh

5. Jarrad McVeigh
6. Steven Salopek
7. Andrew Mackie
9. Hamish McIntosh
10. Jason Laycock
12. Jay Schulz
13. Byron Schammer
16. Stephen Gilham

17. Cameron Faulkner

19. Troy Selwood

20. Will Minson

26. Jared Rivers
30. Daniel Merrett

33. Brad Murphy
35. Scott Bassett

37. Brent Staker
45. Kade Simpson
46. Leigh Fisher

49. Cameron Wight

51. Tim Boyle
53. Adam Selwood
55. Ryan Crowley
64. Nick Malceski
72. Brad Fisher

Not the best result, should have swapped McIntosh with Walsh, Faulkner with Rivers, Murphy with Simpson, Basett was Rhodes choice and I wouldn't have minded Fisher.

2003

1. Adam Cooney

2. Andrew Walker
3. Colin Sylvia

4. Farren Ray

5. Brock McLean
12. Ryan Murphy
13. Brent Stanton
15. Troy Chaplin
19. David Mundy
20. Sam Butler
23. Matthew Moody
30. Brad Symes
33. Jed Adcock
44. Ricky Dyson
46. Michael Pettigrew

50. Izaac Thompson

53. Daniel Jackson
55. Sam Fisher
58. Ben Hudson
61. Michael Rischitelli
73. Shane Tuck
76. Andrew Raines

I'm happy with Cooney, Ray and McLean are interchangeable, Mundy is better than Koops, and I would have liked Fisher or Hudson instead of Thompson.

Thats as far as I'm going, because later drafts haven't really been in the system that long (5 years minimum for assessment). Clayton has only really stuffed up the 2001 and 2002 drafts, and even then he still managed to get Lake and Minson, who should both make it.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Scott Clayton - Recruiting guru or an inflated reputation?

The problem with replacing him is that recruiing is so important that if he leaves we need to get a good recruiter otherwise we will be hurting for years. He's had a fairly good record with us, here are his draft picks and who he could have gotten after.

Thanks for posting that.

What it really shows is that he hasn't actually done that bad a job. It's easy to look at it with 20-20 hindsight and say he should have picked Kerr rather than McMahon but 7 other recruiters had a shot between our pick and West Coast's who overlooked Kerr as well.

He has missed surprisingly few KP's and actually picked up the best late-in-the-draft KP in Lake.



NB: LRT was a NSW zone selection so he was not available even if we wanted him.

[Sedat]

Re: Scott Clayton - Recruiting guru or an inflated reputation?

2003

1. Adam Cooney

2. Andrew Walker
3. Colin Sylvia

4. Farren Ray

5. Brock McLean
12. Ryan Murphy
13. Brent Stanton
15. Troy Chaplin
19. David Mundy
20. Sam Butler
23. Matthew Moody
30. Brad Symes
33. Jed Adcock
44. Ricky Dyson
46. Michael Pettigrew

50. Izaac Thompson

53. Daniel Jackson
55. Sam Fisher
58. Ben Hudson
61. Michael Rischitelli
73. Shane Tuck
76. Andrew Raines

I'm happy with Cooney, Ray and McLean are interchangeable, Mundy is better than Koops, and I would have liked Fisher or Hudson instead of Thompson.

I know we're going over old ground, but instead of having picks 1, 4 and 50, we should have had 1, 4, 6, 19, 20, 35 and 50, plus pick 1 in the PSD - or worst case kept our 5 picks in the top 20 and traded away the others for speculative acquisitions like Street and Morgan. I acknowledge that this isn't Clayton's fault - he can only use the picks he has at his disposal. Having a quality talent spotter in our ranks makes it even more galling to have thrown away such a strong draft position in 2003. It wasn't the best of draft years but Clayton surely would have found diamonds in the rough.

With McLean and Sylvia having constant injury and attitudinal issues, Ray is looking a increasingly solid selection. We were criticised heavily with the Ray selection at the time. The other big surprise at the time was Stanton going as high as he did - that also proved to be a pretty good get. Adcock was terrific value at 33.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Re: Scott Clayton - Recruiting guru or an inflated reputation?

I think it's time for Clayton to go. Hes had both some draft successes and some duds with us. IMO he picks too many development players that either take too long to develop, or never get there. He just doesn't pick enough ready made footballers, and frequently overlooks the junior overachievers for smokey types.

And he is consistently selling us on his late round speculative talls (Skipper, Wight, OShea, Boumann). They have rarely come on as advertised and its part of the reason our list has the problems it does. He does not have a good record with talls having never, if you could this years rookie draft, having selected a ruckman, and never having contributed a key forward. Its only Lake and Williams that save his record from being appalling in this area.

He has had almost a decade, hes made a contribution, but I firmly believe its time to go SClayton

[Dry Rot]

Re: Scott Clayton - Recruiting guru or an inflated reputation?

Can we analyse Clayton's performance NB talls without also questioning his best available rather than team needs drafting philosophy?

[GVGjr]

Re: Scott Clayton - Recruiting guru or an inflated reputation?

Can we analyse Clayton's performance NB talls without also questioning his best available rather than team needs drafting philosophy?

They are two separate issues in my opinion.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Scott Clayton - Recruiting guru or an inflated reputation?

I have just been going through the drafts, he did miss a lot of talent & drafted a lot of duds to the club.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Scott Clayton - Recruiting guru or an inflated reputation?

I have just been going through the drafts, he did miss a lot of talent & drafted a lot of duds to the club.

Name names, and who we should have taken in place - preferabbly starting from his first draft. Then a comment like this has absolute credibility. I tend to somewhat agree with you, but without the info, i tend to think he has been ok.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Scott Clayton - Recruiting guru or an inflated reputation?

Name names, and who we should have taken in place - preferabbly starting from his first draft. Then a comment like this has absolute credibility. I tend to somewhat agree with you, but without the info, i tend to think he has been ok.

1999: Patrick Wiggins (David Hille)
2000: Jordan McMahon (Daniel Kerr)
2001: Sam Power (Nick Dal Santo)
2001: Brent Colbert (Adam Schneider)
2002: Tim Walsh (Andrew Mackie)
2003: Izaac Thomson (Sam Fisher)
2004: Damien McCormack (Chris Knights, Matthew Egan)
2005: Michael West, Travis Baird (Matthew Stokes)

Just a few players who have gone on to make names for themselves in the AFL, while our guys haven't done much.

I know some are different heights to each other, but it just goes to show that a lot of drafts are guessing games i suppose.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Scott Clayton - Recruiting guru or an inflated reputation?

1999: Patrick Wiggins (David Hille)
2000: Jordan McMahon (Daniel Kerr)
2001: Sam Power (Nick Dal Santo)
2001: Brent Colbert (Adam Schneider)
2002: Tim Walsh (Andrew Mackie)
2003: Izaac Thomson (Sam Fisher)
2004: Damien McCormack (Chris Knights, Matthew Egan)
2005: Michael West, Travis Baird (Matthew Stokes)

Just a few players who have gone on to make names for themselves in the AFL, while our guys haven't done much.

I know some are different heights to each other, but it just goes to show that a lot of drafts are guessing games i suppose.

We're all geniuses in hindsight, but you make a convincing case with this list.

[anfo27]

Re: Scott Clayton - Recruiting guru or an inflated reputation?

not one post has mentioned the fact that Scott Clayton no longer works for the Dogs, he is now the head guy for GC17. He made a massive howler when trading Farren Ray last year. When Farren declared he wanted to go, at the top of my head i could think of 3 clubs that could use his run (Fremantle, Sydney & St.Kilda) when he stated he wanted to stay in Melbourne it was obvious to me there was only one destination he could go. What i cant understand is why we didn't do a deal with the saints that sent Ray to the Saints for a 3rd or 4th round pick, with the understanding that the saints would not put a bid in for Ayce Cordy. With that scenario both sides win. The saints get Ray for practically nothing & keep their 2nd round pick, while we get Cordy & another first round pick. i'm watching this from the outer & i can see it, we pay these guys to make these decisions. It's a no-brainer.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Scott Clayton - Recruiting guru or an inflated reputation?

not one post has mentioned the fact that Scott Clayton no longer works for the Dogs, he is now the head guy for GC17. He made a massive howler when trading Farren Ray last year. When Farren declared he wanted to go, at the top of my head i could think of 3 clubs that could use his run (Fremantle, Sydney & St.Kilda) when he stated he wanted to stay in Melbourne it was obvious to me there was only one destination he could go. What i cant understand is why we didn't do a deal with the saints that sent Ray to the Saints for a 3rd or 4th round pick, with the understanding that the saints would not put a bid in for Ayce Cordy. With that scenario both sides win. The saints get Ray for practically nothing & keep their 2nd round pick, while we get Cordy & another first round pick. i'm watching this from the outer & i can see it, we pay these guys to make these decisions. It's a no-brainer.

Other clubs would have nominated Ayce if that helps.

[comrade]

Re: Scott Clayton - Recruiting guru or an inflated reputation?

Because then another team bids for Cordy and we don't get Liam Jones.

Pretty simple.

[GVGjr]

Re: Scott Clayton - Recruiting guru or an inflated reputation?

not one post has mentioned the fact that Scott Clayton no longer works for the Dogs, he is now the head guy for GC17. He made a massive howler when trading Farren Ray last year. When Farren declared he wanted to go, at the top of my head i could think of 3 clubs that could use his run (Fremantle, Sydney & St.Kilda) when he stated he wanted to stay in Melbourne it was obvious to me there was only one destination he could go. What i cant understand is why we didn't do a deal with the saints that sent Ray to the Saints for a 3rd or 4th round pick, with the understanding that the saints would not put a bid in for Ayce Cordy. With that scenario both sides win. The saints get Ray for practically nothing & keep their 2nd round pick, while we get Cordy & another first round pick. i'm watching this from the outer & i can see it, we pay these guys to make these decisions. It's a no-brainer.

It's an old thread that JH40 bumped but lets get one thing straight, Clayton didn't trade Ray.

We got what we could from the Saints